Wegner Motorsports has made some large primary 2 into 1 exhaust systems.I think that they only make them to order now.I would call them and ask.
257 is a great cam.I have an Andrews 67 in a 114.It is virtually the same cam with the only difference being 1 degree on the exhaust opening and closing timing.I would say that your cam is pretty much done by 5700 rpm.

 

Do you have dyno sheet on your build? What exhaust also? I have done a ton of research on 5 boards as to exhausts, but almost all results are bagger guys looking for bottom end and midrange, I'm not. What is the usable (happy) RPM band with your cam? I had to front cut my exhaust valves for the 257 to work without the valves hitting too. I was thinking to go to a Woods 256/256 .6 something lift for more top end, but don't want to buy an unusable cam if the valves hit. Bobby says buy it and see, other cam companies say to widen the lobe separation so they "probably" won't hit. I was hoping someone has done this so I don't have to buy a lot of unusable stuff. Timinator

 

Is there a Best?
Good pipe, good cam??
How about good combination of parts?
Its a softail and I would be looking at a Rush 2 into 1
What you see in somebody's dyno sheet are not exactly what you can expect from yours unless the build and porting is identical. Even then the variance in inertia dynos and the techniques used to run and calibrate them is all over the map. Compare your dyno to the one after the pipe change and a retune on the same dyno at close to the same weather conditions for a good indication of the incremental gain.

 

After being on 5 different boards you should know that it is all relative to what that person is doing. Best pipes,,, Best cams. That's a hand full. As autoworker said Wagner makes some fine pipes. If you call them they will make a kit for you so you can cut them the way you want. Don likes Rush in your case. Me,,, I'll stick with my Fatcat's. Good luck.

Welcome to the forum!

 

I just was throwing darts. The FatCat is fine so is Rinehart 2/1 as long as the bike doesn't have bags. But Best? No, just a group of pipes that collectively produce more power and an acceptable torque curve on a broad base of builds.
Personally I don't care for stainless as a material of choice, mild steel is so much more durable and doesn't crack as easily. I also like to have full heat shields. Fit and finish does need to be parts of a pipe choice too.
So the cam..
If the heads actually continue to have added flow after .6 then give the motor some camshaft and raise the compression.
Lots come to mind but all are in the .635 lift range and 255 duration. Characteristics of the heads flow curve will dictate which cam is better, particularly the LSA and LC of the grinds.

 

19203943557 ask for casey decent guy. Not my bike but one style he makes ill post another also

 

I've had good performance w/the BASSANI B-1 2-1 pipes - according to Bassani - pipe was developed to support big bore (110 cu+)motors. I'm running the 110 bolt-on stage V kit, I substituted a set of 584 Rocket cams (Crane - Chris Rivas series) for the S.E. 259E emission certified cams. (lift: 0.584; dur: 252 @ 0.050,) big improvement!! Runs cooler too! Static Compr ratio is around 10.9:1 (0.030" HG w/ 83cc CNC heads) lots of juice on my little softail.
I was running a Magnaflow 2:1 and wasn't getting good mid-torque. the B-1 made a big difference. check out the Rivas web page - he has posted dyno runs from some of his builds (inc 110's) with several cams with and w/o the B-1 header. He has a 110 stroker w/a S&S 585 cams set w/ported heads, like your bike, etc - dyno'd 125 lbft and 133 HP.
if you look at the curve - the HP jumps at 5,000 RPM - take a look - food for thought. !!thumbs

 

Thanks guys, I'll take it all under advisement and keep looking! TIMINATOR

 

There is no best pipe. I believe your cams are the major issue with what you have. And what you want. Changing the cams may require some head work.. your engine is solid and runs well... but to get up to say 6500 rpm, a pipe isn't going to do it...as I've said the cams are a problem, the heads may be an issue, and I believe the induction module is too small...

 

i've had good luck with these guys http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/

 

Terry makes sense to me on the subject.

But if you still are looking anyways I've been following Big Squeeks and will purchase a 2/1 from them. They just don't create for sound, he does test as well.

 

Terry makes sense to me on the subject.

But if you still are looking anyways I've been following Big Squeeks and will purchase a 2/1 from them. They just don't create for sound, he does test as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAUEr7HyAQA

Ok....I know it's always me putting the poo poo on stuff BUT the pipe sits at least 2-3"s below the stock exhaust hanger and he says "it won't drag".....BS.

 

Royal t racing. Some hand made greatness. All tig welded one by one. Small shop, great products.

 

SPEAKING OF POO-POO? the short 2-1 headers look really cool and they sound great (a lot like dual 2-2 pipes) - I ran one made by Magnaflow on my 103 - great construction - ceramic coated stainless steel, nice turn-out, but it was a short pipe after the collector and the header pipes were not equal length. It was lacking in torque generation , big time, as much as 10 - 12 lb-ft less than some longer pipes. the mid-range dipped down from 3200 to 3800 RPM, made for a real "dead-spot" in the power curve.
Could not tune the dip out completely. For everyday riding - not an issue - looks good, sounds great, runs better than a 2-2 set. But if you are shooting for big numbers - it's not helping. The Squeak pipes may be better?? if they have some dyno graphs that would help. I just don't want someone else getting stuck with a $500 plus paper weight like I did. regards -WH :beatdh:

 

Well.... I spent about an hour + on the phone yesterday with:

D&D= "we don't dyno with anything but stock bikes" "buy 'em & try 'em"

Bassani: "buy our stepped header, I think it'll help"

V&H; the most help so far, but: "without A/F ratio on the dyno sheet and I need a lot more other info I can't help you" "call back when you get it." He also said that my exhaust valve may be too small too (Intake 1.94 Exhaust 1.625) I will call back with more info and post it too.

Next, I am going to make a few different baffles and instrument them with pressure sensors to check for differing amounts of back pressure in the muffler section while on the dyno. Also I'll try it with no baffle. I'll also get the A/F on it too.
Then mebbie I can figure something out.

I have a Thunder Max computer on this bike, it is self tuning with wideband O2 sensors in each pipe, and it shows that the highest recorded injector duty cycle is 73%, and in my mind that means I don't have an injector size or a fuel pressure issue. Comments? TIMINATOR

 

Hi - I'm now running the Bassani B1 road rage II 2-1 pipe. It has longer, stepped, equal-length head pipes, merge collector, followed by a 2nd collector/venture , then 2.5" short baffle. it makes good power early and carries it out to 5,000 RPM. Bassani claims it was designed for large bore motors of 110 cu's and up? I think S&S runs one on their 143 cu. in DRAGON? that motor's putting up 160+ HP/TQ. I also found out (from Magnaflow!!)that most of these pipe builders don't test there pipe products on hot-rodded bikes??
but aren't these the customers buying the expensive 2-1 headers?
Who-da-thought??

 

there seems to be a lot of those short turn out header makers now....I know it's the big wheel group that is dictating this trend. There's no way those pipe's will be able to make usable power the way a longer one does...just isn't going to happen. I like the style but would never have one....not enough usable power and too close to my head for location.

 

Bassani has always shown good power, as have Rinehart.... those stubby little pipes with the short collectors are like drag pipes... loud and may make power at wot. But for riding,,, no..

 

Yeah - I like the Bassani B-1's - the are longer - go back to the rear axle on my softail, and they have a nice deep tone, they bark when you get on it too! they make good power/torque.

 

Willis 3251, have you measured the primaries on the Bassanis? Do THEY claim they are equal length? My V&Hs are 23" and 32" on the primaries, a full 9" different! I would like to see pics of those too. I really need a header that will pick up HP over 5700 rpm, mine is flat above that, all the way to 6400. I'll try to post pics of the old and new HP curves from the same dyno, before and after the 2nd cam, Tbody, porting, valves, and T-Max. TIMINATOR

 

OP-
Make your own pipe. Call Vince at Burns Stainless and tell him your goals.
He will spec out a pipe for you and send you the pieces for you or your welder to fab up.

 

I'm just curious.

How would the cost of that compare with buying "of the shelf"?

 

I was a certified welder for 6 years before I had my own machine shop, so me and my Miller 350 Syncrowave could certainly make the pipes.
Currently we are swamped with engine work and mostly, I don't think the SS look works with my chromed Fatboys current appearance, and it would cost me more to do the pipes myself than buy factory units too.
We are current Burns customers and have nothing but good things to say about them. Thanks for the idea though.
I was hoping to get a set of dyno proven pipes in my desired RPM range, but I really didn't think that the big manufacturers either had no practical tests or just don't want to admit what their products actually do.
I guess that I will make do with what I have until anecdotal evidence of a products superiority overwhelms my innate cheapness. Translation= I am too cheap to buy anything new until I have proof that it will actually be better than what I have. Thanks for the replies though! TIMINATOR

 

You might call Drago's bike works and talk to Frank.

As far as equal length goes, I believe what you need to be concerned with is equal FLOW, not equal length. If both head pipes were tje same exact shape - meaning the same number of bends and the same angle on every bend, then yes, equal length. But what you're concerned with here is that the exhaust gas pulse caused by the opening and closing of the exhaust valve, takes the same amount of time to get from the cylinder to the collector. Since the rear head pipe has to make some wacky bends to get pointed in the right direction, it should probably be shorter than the front pipe.

As an example, years ago an appliance service guy told me, when I was trying to figure out why clothes dryer wasn't working, "The dryer sees every 90°elbow as 10 feet of pipe." Yes, I know we're not talking about dryers here. But fluid dynamics is fluid dynamics.

There's a program called "Pipe Max" that an engine builder I know uses to build custom headers for race and very hot street cars. I've never used it myself, but that might help you get where you want to be, especially given your fabrication skills and abilities.

 

N.E. Confederate, you are absolutely correct about the velocity / bends deal! I was just wondering where Bassani put that extra length for the back pipe. As far as true length VS "bent length" look at some of the "equal length" 5.0 Mustang shorty headers, you will laugh your a** off! I had a set of those on the flow bench years ago after one of my car customers had poor results with them. The flow balance was off by near 40%!!! At my insistence he finally went to long tube headers that were within about 4" on the lengths, WOW!!! He couldn't believe it was the same engine!
Years ago (about 30) when I ran a 2300 cc engine in a Drag car Pinto for testing/learning (head porting/ flowbench) I tried all 3 pipes made for that application with lackluster results. I finally built a set of stepped headers with a rotational staged, merge collector (I saw them on formula 1 cars and figured that I would try it), and centerline equal length within 1/4". I used pipe formulas from books (no internet then) and collector length too and found that as calculated for max power from 7800 rpm to 9000 rpm everything was spot on! I gained several 10ths and about 3 mph and I was ecstatic!!! My exact for MY application header had beaten the factories "one size fits all" pipe! But, I figured that I could do better, so I made the pipes adjustable length on the primaries and collector with slip in sections. I found then that equal and tuned length pipes work perfectly correct, or terribly wrong depending on length and intended rpm band. An unequal length pipe set broadens out the power band with a loss in peak power. I also realized that the only reason that I could make those pipes work was that I had a TON of room to work with in there. A 302 or 351 V-8 goes right in that engine bay! and my headers took up a lot of real estate! On a drag bike that you only ride for 7 or 8 seconds doesn't have to have the comfort level or power band for a street bike either.
I guess I'll try Pipe Max and see if that and the Dyno Sim help me reinvent the wheel. I personally think that the correct or close enough pipe for my application exists, I'll just listen to all and see if I can find it! Thanks all for the input, I'll keep reading and posting and see what pops up! TIMINATOR P.S. I will call Drago's today!

 

You may want to consider a Patriot Defender 2:1. I don't have near the motor as your Fatboy, but have been pleased with the pipe performance. The butterfly gives you the ability to tune, full open for top end or partially closed for more torque at low-mid range. They beefed up the mounting bracket that has resolved the cracking issues of prior. The price on considerably lower than other leading pipes.

https://shop.patriotpipes.com/m101112s-harley-davidson-softail-1984-2015-2-into-1-long-stainless.html#.WIopGFMrLX4

 

I'm going to stick with change the cams. I'm not saying a new pipe won't change things.. it may just change in an area you don't want... a stepped pipe is the best bet for more power up high without a loss lower...