what type of gasket did you use? do not use sealant on the gasket, if you did, that could be your issue

 

no sealant.

normally I have a Silicone-Beaded type (grey with red line)
but this was a regular looking gasket, think it might even have been a JAMES.

Most notable thing was the large triangle area (old one didn't have that)

I'm sure its just the way I've aligned it, if anything.

I'll drain and pull the cover and then can tell more

 

R u 100% sure its primary fluid and not tranny fluid. I think no matter where the leak is, it always ends up to the bottom of the primary like that. I chased a oil leak thinking it was the primary but it turned out it was the transmission quad and main seal. Change out the primary fluid to atf so he can make sure that's the oil that is leaking since it will be red

 

same here.
smell it to identify

 

There are several places that leak, all appear to be the primary, but some aren't.... starting at the front...
Engine o-ring
Outer bolts at the front of primary, these need silicone on the bolt shanks
Generator plug
Leak where shifter shaft passes through primary
Shifter shaft seal
Small seal on 5th gear
Large seal on 5th gear
Seepage through 5th gear and sprocket shaft spacer (many have a quad seal there)
Inner primary mainshaft seal
Hairline Crack, or porosity of primary housing
Crack at drain plug, drain plug under/over tightened no sealer used on drain plug
Never use sealer on beaded gaskets, or afm gaskets
Derby gasket, some older bikes, with the o-ring and sealing washers, will not seal, with the new gasket
Inspection cover gasket
Using the wrong outer primary gasket, even though all the bolt holes align
Depending on how the bike sits, all of these appear to leak at the rear in the drain plug area, or at the front near the comp sprocket area, it's gravity and wind currents moving the leaked oil to the lowest spot, before it drips...

Sometimes I use q-tips to locate leaks..

 

for once I'm hoping you are wrong on 13counts, at least, TT!

whatever it is is minor.

since I got the chain lube drip out the way, and the jackshaft leak sealed. It appears golden in colour and seems to be towards the bottom of the primary and no higher.

I know I don't have the primary over filled and having changed the gasket for a new one I figured it would stop.

I'm aware that some of the primary cover bolts are different lengths, and I wonder if one is just not pulling in far enough, but I cannot find a diagram for this. I'm gonna try measuring the hole depths that I read here on the forums.

Also gonna try PTFE (Teflon) tape on the oil drain plug

All are done up to correct torque, and I've even tweaked a little more to be sure, but it hasnt stopped it.

Only seems to occur after a run, so figure its pressurising or warming up and leaking

I'll work me way through this list and see what I can identify.

Just so sick of taking the primary off and on, and I know every gasket and seal has now been replaced.

cheers

 

just dump it and replace it with atf...this way if its def red coming out, at least u have piece of mind of where its coming from...then start working on the problem.....I put alittle Teflon tape on the drain plug as well, that way its a good seal without torqueing that poor little bolt! lol

 

sounds like a plan, cheers!

 

the early evo's are notorious for the splines on the front pulley going south. if the splines become worn and don't have a tight fit on the main gear the trans. will leak.

 

If that is the old style paper gasket, it may take a few heat cycles to seal up, the gaskets work well, but they have to absorb some oil before they stop leaking and may need a retorquing of screws. That was the mistake a lot of people made when that style of gasket was more common and people would smear sealant on them and basically ruin them and cause them to never seal correctly

 

and yes Nitram the primary gasket appears to be a paper style one (Genuine James gasket).

Cant say i like the look of it as much as the silicone bead type... but if it stops the oil, its doing its job and thats all that matters.

 

Terry's list is excellent. My bike has an occasional drip which I've traced to the generator plug. Not enough to warrant tearing everything apart, but enough that I'll be sure to address it the next time I have a reason to go in there.

 

I hope im weong on most of that list as well, lol...
Since it only drips after a ride, that points to something above the static oil level....this point to:::
Starter jackshaft seal
Mainshaft seal at the back of the primary,, did the inner race have a ring around it? If so you should polish that off with sandpaper for a consistent surface
Quad seal on 5th gear behind the sprocket shaft spacer
As already said splines on 5th gear having oil seepage.. if this is the source, you can pack the splines with black rtv then I stall the nut and torque befor it sets up..
Inner primary bolts wicking oil down their shafts and presenting as leak, I use loctite on the threads and rtv on the bolt shanks..
Rtv around the stator plug these leak and seep
Outer seal rhea small one on the transmission mainshaft.
The outer primary gasket so.erimes seeps as already said
Some early derby covers, gaskets, and outer primary combinations leak when using the flat derby gasket
Use the sealing washers on the derby cover screws
Atf is a good idea, it the leak is red, you found the source, if it's not you eleminated one source.
Sometimes harley castings are porous,, (I had a leaky rocker box on a new shovel, turned out to be a porous casting)
Definitely use pipe dope or Teflon tape on the pipe thread drain plug
Just a few things to look for, with cures

 

again, cheers for more pointers TT

I'm running 2 derby seals at the mo, the o-ring AND the Harley recommended full size one (that thing leaked like a mofo when I put it in on its own).

Certain its not the derby, or coming down the front of the primary, but I gotta figure it out. Things like this drive me nuts!

pretty certain its not the jackshaft seal either...having pushed that all the way home to stop the previous obvious leak.

I'll jack the back of the bike up higher so I can see right into the drive area.

i'm putting my money on the outer primary, as I've not tried to adjust this new one yet. But I'll do that when I put the ATF in.

still cannot find a diagram showing the location of the various length outer primary bolts... ?anyone?

 

Those quad seals can be a pain in the ass, easy to cut one on the splines and a little bit of a bitch to make sure they are seated correctly

 

IF the quad seal was leaking, where would I be seeing signs of oil (when looking up from underneath?)

I've not taken anything apart yet.

I'm gonna try the drain and ATF fluid recommendation, cause that will show me Primary vs Tranny leak much quicker.

I know I put the seal in, but you are right, it could have got pinched or cut during my other issues

cheers

 

If it's the sprocket shaft spacer quad the leak will be on the rear side of the drive pully, the oil wicks past the seal, inside the spacer, to seep out on the rear of the pully..
I've chased some leaks until I thought I was going to rip my hair our, lol,

 

ahhh well that wont happen to me Terry...

haven't got any to start with! :laugh:

 

Thing is, you have to wipe everything down to find the culprit unless you have visibly different oil in the primary and transmission, because the front belt sprocket throws it all around. Basicly, if oil is coming from in front of the pulley, it is the rear primary seal, from directly in back of the pulley and actually wetting the back ( facing the transmission) of the pulley, it's the quad seal, closer to the transmission in the same line, it is the transmission main seal, slightly in front (forward) of this area on the transmission would be the shifter shaft seal.

 

Just buy a little oil leak detection kit off of Amazon. Like $50, money well spent. No Harley shade tree shop should be without one.

 

i had same type of thing and traced it down to the oil tank dipstick with the rubber stopper, was worn enough that oil was seeping out of it very slowly and it drips down and then the low point of the primary is where the drops collect.

 

...so a few test rides later :chopper:

Automatic Transmission fluid hasn't changed a thing, you still have to change gear manually! :redrolf: but it has now shown that it's the trans leaking.

seems to be the main seal behind drive sprocket from what I can see. will pull apart again and re-seat, like i did with the jack shaft.



Also an odd discovery, while measuring depths of the primary bolt holes (as you do) I discover that this hole was 6inch deep!!!!!

...that was until I realised it goes right THROUGH the inner primary! :wacko:

Should that be? has someone drilled it out by mistake or should there be a rubber bung or similar at the back of it?

 

A rightside cover mounted left? I know Brits are doing some stuff on the wrong side but this?..........

 

Someone has drilled the hole that is one of the short bolts originally...
Many times when the large sprocket shaft seal leaks the ball bearing is going south. Look at it closely...

 

cheers terry, figured it shouldn't have a hole out the back

bloody hope the bearings aren't, I've only just fitted them :laugh:

Hopefully more a case of I aligned the seal flat with the face of the trans, rather than pushing it all the way into its hole

 

so lets talk quad seal etc.

switched the primary to ATF. but my drips have turned to puddles, and they weren't red!

Spotted a leak down the back of the drive sprocket, clearly coming from the mainshaft on the trans.

In turn the sprocket is flinging it all over the housings

with the primary removed the leak seams to be pretty substantial from the inner diameter of the transmission seal.

IF I move that spacer-sprocket it absolutely gushes out! (appreciate I haven't drained the trans yet) ...should it do that?

Where is this quad seal and whats it look like?

I've seen various forum pics and it appears to be a large diameter ring, others show it as o-rings, and the FSM says its a ball bearing? (32)

so looking at the good book, Trans Housing, its not quite the same as I'm chain and this shows belt...but:

32 quad seal, ball bearing
34 oil seal
42 spacer sprocket
43 belt drive sprocket

...going to order a new spacer sprocket (42) today as I'm told they wear (and mine doesn't look to bright)

?anyone?

 

The quad seal is a square shouldered seal, item 32 in the (very poor) illustration, it is actually the same diameter as the spacer.

Also, consider replacing the main drive gear/mainshaft oil seal, item 6 in the illustration.

http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche...?Type=13&make=hdmc&a=79&b=16&c=0&d=1986 FXR Super Glide (EA) TRANSMISSION GEARS

 

little info

 

thanksDan89FLSTC & Nitram

I've just ordered a KIT from my VERY reliable indy and he gave the following part number for my year, model and being a chain:

L84-94BT 5SP M-SHFT SEAL - DS194476

I've already replaced the mainshaft seal, but it wont hurt to have a spare...but note the size of the O-ring

why is this called a QUAD seal? surely quad means four?

when ordering the spacer I note on his diagram the following:

73 - so thats not the quad seal you are all referring to?
46 the spacer-sprocket I've ordered.
but what is 36?? and can it be fitted from OUTSIDE the trans?

also will 46 spacer-sprocket be different lengths for chain OR belt drive?

 

Quad because it has four seal surfaces. But basically a fancy square cut oring. It seal the inner taper on the sprocket spacer to the outer face/shaft of 5th gear. It's a real iffy seal that was an after thought on the design. If every thing is just right, and it all goes togeather just right they work. If they don't work, you don't find out about it until the scooter is all back together and on the road. I don't use them any more.

 

cant answer all your questions but
i believe 36 is the leaking seal. it seals between the 5th gear shaft & the countershaft. when i replaced it, i picked out the old one & used a modified PVC pipe to install the new one.

 

good to know, thanks

so you pushed it deep I presume?

having watched the earlier video (filmed in an earthquake simulator)the seal appears to go INTO the end of the chamfered sprocket spacer and that slips over the mainshaft, into the mainseal it would appear.

I'm pretty certain I fitted one... but obviously I'll go back over all this

also the video mentions the fact the spacer gets worn by the main seal... which is perhaps where my problem lies

cant answer all your questions but
i believe 36 is the quad seal. it seals between the 5th gear shaft & the countershaft. when i replaced it, i picked out the old one & used a modified PVC pipe to install the new one.

 

73 is the sprocket nut lock plate, slip it over the torqued nut then insert 2 10/32 screws with blue loctite to keep the nut from loosening..
36 is the small oil seal for 5th gear it goes over the mainshaft... it must be installed from the outside and may be put in while the transmission mainshaft is still installed.....
I use rtv on the outboard end of the spacer, before the pully is installed, and pack a little into the splines about 2-3mm in and then assemble it all before the rtv dries..
Either way should work

 

...Once more unto the breach +SMSH+

primary off and here's up close and personal (spacer removed).

Note the welling up (6 o'clock on the main shaft seal)

so I drove the mainshaft seal back a little further...few mm...and gave the quad seal grove a good clean. new quad seal pushed all the way home

I turned to the replacement spacer.

Unfortunately what my indy supplied was not what is on the bike (half the height and a tiny chamfer in comparison)

ran some scotch bright over it and placed it carefully back into place.

currently I'm bolting back up and oiling... will see how this behaves

 

I had just the opposite problem when I ordered my new spacer. I needed the short one with the small chamfer. They sent the wide one with lots of chamfer.

 

hahah I would say lets swap but the trans atlantic shipping wouldnt help either of us :nope:

did yours happen to say what year and model on the pack?

I get this alot with parts, due to mine having a chain...and I'm told it should have been Belt in '86

 

That tall spacer needs to be buffed up. Chuck it up and polish the surface, then reuse it. It that groove wont buff out, run down to the Bearing house and get a wear sleeve to fit it.

 

Mine wasn't going to buff out. I had a pic but it's on my home laptop.

Here's the pic. You can actually feel the groove with your finger.

Amazing how a rubber seal lip can cut a groove in a steel spacer isn't it..

That's no lie. Almost defies logic.

I use rtv on the outboard end of the spacer, before the pully is installed, and pack a little into the splines about 2-3mm in and then assemble it all before the rtv dries..
Either way should work

I'll test that theory this evening.

 

Mine wasn't going to buff out. I had a pic but it's on my home laptop.