[Thermodyne]

Hoping to get some opinions to steer me one way or the other. I currently have a Rivera Pro-Clutch in my 89 FXR and after 100 or so miles it starts to become painful to pull the clutch in so I need to address it since 100 miles is a short ride to me. I should note I have limited extension in my left hand which only allows me to pull the clutch with my 2 fingers, I have the exact same reduced diameter grips and short reach levers on 2 other bikes so that parts addressed.

the Muller Power Clutch seems like the easy and less expensive option. under $250 and less work. My hesitation with going with the Muller is it took me many tries to get the clutch adjustment correct on the Pro-Clutch where it wouldn't drag in gear. As is I'm only backed out 3/8 turn on the adjuster and barely an 1/8" of slack on the cable. With even less throw going to the Muller, I'm afraid I'll fry the throwout bearing adjusting too tight in order to get good realease. BTW I've checked the diaphragm spring to see if it needs shims and its good. I think I just suck at adjusting it.

Hydraulic seems almost easier for me then going back and forth with clutch adjustments. Downside is it would cost about $600 and I'd have to ditch the brake/clutch levers that I know work for me. The only levers that seem like they could work for the trike clutch master I have are Oberons which are expensive. Alternatively I could use a clutch master from a newer touring bike, however I think they're too bulky looking.

Anyone want to talk me into one direction or the other?

1st. What color spring is in the clutch? They make them in three weights, and most 80 inch Evos work fine with the light one. The heavy plate is a little hard to hold.

2nd. What degree ramps are in the side cover. They come in several flavors. Less degrees makes for easy pull. More degrees make for harder pull but greater lift at the pressure plate.

 

[tall terry]

Concur with thermodyne,,
V-Strum has a good point,, I had over 100 bikes in my care that had Rivera clutches,, big inch engines,, qn assortment 9f the mid 2000's chopper craze bikes... they had various ramp and ball assemblies, a few baker RSD hydraulic models too.. I do remember on a few, it was necessary to crank the adjustment screw further than contact to seat the balls in the ramps.. back it off to just touching then do the 2-3 flats free play..

In my own bike, i had the late harley ramps,, and medium spring,, i found the pull lighter than the previous clutch, with greater holding power... my 113 built engine, never slipped...
Sorry about the mind having flatulence needed to wake up the back corners in my on board files, lol..

 

[casement]

Any machine shop given the ramp and bearing can quickly spot face the ramp to clear it. The task is just placing the ramp in a milling machine vise on parallels, centering the quill on the hole in the ramp then spot face with a carbide end mill. With the wafer bearing and ramp in hand any machinist will instantly see what's needed. They won't need any dimensions since that will be instantly obvious. I lacked a mill at the time so my bro knocked it out in a few minutes. Most shops charge a flat rate of at least an hour since overhead isn't free and every job takes time away from another job.
A good suitably large industrial drill press that can chuck your mill of choice would work too.

 

[Supergoose]

I know that they're OEM style or are OEM. But then there were three different ramps that have been used over several years. The ramp marked "reduced effort" is essentially a 19°. You would need to ask Baker what they supply.

Thanks Ohio, very helpful information. I checked with Baker and their kit comes with 18 degree ramps. I just received the Muller in the mail but maybe I will just get the Baker kit to have on hand as well if I end up having 21 degree Ramps.

 

[Supergoose]

1st. What color spring is in the clutch? They make them in three weights, and most 80 inch Evos work fine with the light one. The heavy plate is a little hard to hold.

2nd. What degree ramps are in the side cover. They come in several flavors. Less degrees makes for easy pull. More degrees make for harder pull but greater lift at the pressure plate.

Concur with thermodyne,,
V-Strum has a good point,, I had over 100 bikes in my care that had Rivera clutches,, big inch engines,, qn assortment 9f the mid 2000's chopper craze bikes... they had various ramp and ball assemblies, a few baker RSD hydraulic models too.. I do remember on a few, it was necessary to crank the adjustment screw further than contact to seat the balls in the ramps.. back it off to just touching then do the 2-3 flats free play..

In my own bike, i had the late harley ramps,, and medium spring,, i found the pull lighter than the previous clutch, with greater holding power... my 113 built engine, never slipped...
Sorry about the mind having flatulence needed to wake up the back corners in my on board files, lol..

I just want to make a correction on my earlier post. I originally ran the Muller Power clutch with the Rivera but had a strange adjustment problem, cable slack appeared at high RPM's and disappeared once RPM's dropped. I was reminded of this when I saw the pics OhioHD posted in #17. Unlike the HD ramps, the Muller ramps don't match and may have been causing to the problem, maybe the balls not being bottomed in the ramps.
I ended up replacing the Muller with a MRC ball & ramp which has matching ramps. I also changed my adjustment technique by turning the adjustment screw in hard enough to bottom the balls in the ramps, then adjusting as usual, which solved the problem.

Thank you all. I have the silver spring with the Rivera and V111. thanks for the tips on adjustment, hopefully I won't have an issue. I'm unsure of which ramps I have currently since I'm temporarily located in CA without my tools and my FXR as my only vehicle. I have the Muller and just waiting for some tools I ordered to show up.

 

[tall terry]

After installing the Mueller kit,,, remember,, have total slack on the cable, throughout this... screw the adjuster on the clutch in, until you feel the clutch spring being compressed,, verify this by watching the pressure plate move outward... now start loosening the clutch

I always do this when I have had the clutch out for any reason or if it is a new pro clutch...

This sounds like a sales pitch for rivera,, but, here goes,, once I had the clutchs installed on any bike,, I would do a readjust,later a couple hundredmiles, to seat everything in,,and then forget about it for a year or more..

 

[Supergoose]

Found some snap ring pliers at a flea market yesterday so in the middle of it now. The ramps that were on the bike appear non-OEM and unmarked. Maybe 18degree ramps based on Ohio’s pics. Hopefully the ball bearings are decent quality. Hopefully everyones advice on clutch adjustment will allow this to go easy for me. Thanks!

side note: bassani exhaust and bearing door on baker OD6 sucks for access to the clutch release or even dipstick removal.

 

[Supergoose]

Installation and adjustment went well. My pro-clutch has always dragged when cold (using belray primary fluid) so the test will be pater today when i get to take it out

 

[Ohio HD]

If the clutch always drug a little, it may be due to the 18° ramp. OEM ramps, the higher the angle, the more clutch travel you see. Optimally you want 0.065" or more travel. I'm getting 0.079" with the 21° ramp.

 

[Supergoose]

If the clutch always drug a little, it may be due to the 18° ramp. OEM ramps, the higher the angle, the more clutch travel you see. Optimally you want 0.065" or more travel. I'm getting 0.079" with the 21° ramp.

Okay well thats a failure, i’m definitely not getting enough travel. I feel a light drag and clutch catches right off the bar and can’t get it into neutral. Is the muller just a no go? I only backed out an 1/8 turn on the adjust after it bottomed. I guess how much slack can i take out of the cable?

 

[Ohio HD]

You need to measure the clutch travel to determine what to look at.

I adjust clutches like this.
(1) Slack in the cable.
(2) Turn clockwise the screw in the pressure plate to take out all gap. Turn another half turn to insure that the release mechanism (ramps and balls) is at zero location by lifting the plate. Back out the screw, turn in again until it just stops, back out 1/4 to 1/3 turn, lock it down.
(3) adjust the cable with the wheel straight, use a dime to set the lever gap.

This never fails and is a one try setting.

 

[Supergoose]

You need to measure the clutch travel to determine what to look at.

I adjust clutches like this.
(1) Slack in the cable.
(2) Turn clockwise the screw in the pressure plate to take out all gap. Turn another half turn to insure that the release mechanism (ramps and balls) is at zero location by lifting the plate. Back out the screw, turn in again until it just stops, back out 1/4 to 1/3 turn, lock it down.
(3) adjust the cable with the wheel straight, use a dime to set the lever gap.

This never fails and is a one try setting.

Well seems like i’m back to where i was before installing the Muller with only drag when cold (have to start off in second and shift into first once rolling until i get to end of the block). Although i might be getting a little drag still since its hard to hit neutral from first, but the clutch is catching where it used to.
What happens if i have the adjusting screw too tight? Smoke the throwout bearing or clutch wont fully engage? I’m not convinced i backed off the screw enough.

 

[Ohio HD]

The Muller is known for reducing lever pressure, but not for gaining any clutch travel. That's why you need to know what the clutch travel is. anything less than 0.065" will result in poor clutch disengagement.

Worn clutch lever pivot, old and soft clutch cable outer cover, and poor adjustment all add to not enough clutch disengagement. Anywhere that flex can be introduced into the system can cause low clutch travel.

 

[V-STRUM]

Installation and adjustment went well. My pro-clutch has always dragged when cold (using belray primary fluid) so the test will be pater today when i get to take it out

Rivera recommends using 20 oz. of ATF type F for the Pro Clutch. Using too much fluid will result in difficulty in finding neutral and a bit of drag. Using any synthetic fluid will cause slip.

Another thing I use in my set up is the newer levers ('96+??) which are shaped different and may offer more lever travel. I also use thinner HD grips which also increases lever travel. I believe HD uses these grips as part of some sort of EZ reach bar set up, but I know the '14-'17 Low Riders came with them. I originally got them because I like the feel, the dealer had lots of take offs, sold them to me for $5.

 

[V-STRUM]

Okay well thats a failure, i’m definitely not getting enough travel. I feel a light drag and clutch catches right off the bar and can’t get it into neutral. Is the muller just a no go? I only backed out an 1/8 turn on the adjust after it bottomed. I guess how much slack can i take out of the cable?

An 1/8 turn may be too little, I'd go 1/4 turn minimum. Also be sure balls are bottomed in the ramps by firmly torquing the adjuster screw down before making the adjustment as someone mentioned above. You should adjust the (stock) cable so it will pull an 1/8'' out from the lever perch. Rivera says the slack can be less for a braided cable. I also recommend going to Rivera's website to check the numbers from the horses mouth rather than a jack ass like me.

 

[Supergoose]

The Muller is known for reducing lever pressure, but not for gaining any clutch travel. That's why you need to know what the clutch travel is. anything less than 0.065" will result in poor clutch disengagement.

Worn clutch lever pivot, old and soft clutch cable outer cover, and poor adjustment all add to not enough clutch disengagement. Anywhere that flex can be introduced into the system can cause low clutch travel.

Thanks, i’ll need to pickup a dial indicator to confirm the actual travel but cable is new. I bottomed out the adjuster multiple times, backed out, and back in until i feel a little pressure, then 1/4 turn out. Clutch lever catches where i think it should but still getting a little drag with the lever to the bar. Just enough to know its dragging. Seems like it comes down to just not enough travel

 

[Ohio HD]

I assume that you have stock OEM grips? Thicker custom grips can reduce the travel as the lever stops on the grip sooner.

 

[Supergoose]

Rivera recommends using 20 oz. of ATF type F for the Pro Clutch. Using too much fluid will result in difficulty in finding neutral and a bit of drag. Using any synthetic fluid will cause slip.

Another thing I use in my set up is the newer levers ('96+??) which are shaped different and may offer more lever travel. I also use thinner HD grips which also increases lever travel. I believe HD uses these grips as part of some sort of EZ reach bar set up, but I know the '14-'17 Low Riders came with them. I originally got them because I like the feel, the dealer had lots of take offs, sold them to me for $5.

Thanks, i have changed to 96+ hand controls and have 1.4” diameter grips (oem is 1.5”) so good there. I know rivera recommends atf, but should i worry about the compensator with only 20oz of atf?
My 93 fxr i run a barnett clutch and stock compensator, works great with 28oz of the Belray 80w. My 14 streetglide runs a Bandit with no comp and I’m comfortable with the 14oz of belray 80w they recommend. Seems like mixed opinion on atf and compensator, but msybe that only a twin cam problem?

 

[Ohio HD]

ATF is probably fine for the earlier TC and the Evo compensators. I prefer the Belray gear saver, and haven't ever seen that it induces clutch drag. 80 weight gear oil is similar to 30 weight motor oil in viscosity. As far as volume of oil, I add just enough to allow the primary chain to touch the level when the bike is upright.

 

[Supergoose]

ATF is probably fine for the earlier TC and the Evo compensators. I prefer the Belray gear saver, and haven't ever seen that it induces clutch drag. 80 weight gear oil is similar to 30 weight motor oil in viscosity. As far as volume of oil, I add just enough to allow the primary chain to touch the level when the bike is upright.

View attachment 278457

Thanks, thats exactly what i’m using, Bel-ray gearsaver, works great in my other bikes. I’ll check the fill level too but maybe i’ll try the atf if it wont be a problem with the compensator, just to eliminate it as a problem.