I just bought another 4 quarts of valvoline 50 weight and now the bottle has a sticker that says added zinc excellent for pushrod and tappet engines. It has stayed quiet for the 3000 I have run it so far and as an added benifit it has not moved one iota on the dip stick. I have over 70,000 miles and I swear it is quieter than when it was new.

 

32000 miles with predominantly Valvoline 50wt. At temp, it's just as thin as 20w50 (do your viscosity homework) and has no polymers like multiviscosity oils have, which break down and begin decreasing your viscosity and protection at higher temps, which is why HD recommends it over 80* for added protection. WHEN you run 50wt is the difference of the correct oil, or the incorrect oil. Simply read your owner's manual....

Once the PA temps drop below a daily 60* high and fall starts, I go back to 20w50, for the cooler months and through the winter months of riding.... there's no such thing as "winterizing" at my house......

 

Tried the Valvoline Vr1 50 Wt. My bike has never been this quiet!! This stuff really works, still can't believe!!

 

I Concure...:beer:

 

I have been running the 50wt Bardahl and it runs great.. im just changing it for the Sturgis rally with more 50wt.. ,, i will go back to 20w50 for the fall riding over to the grand canyon :woohoo:

 

what i was surprised at was that i've been running the Redline 50W ( full syn ) for a few years now, just went to Valvoline VR1 50W ( NOT syn ) , and the same weight 50W, not syn, is much quieter. and no, i don't have a problem of any kind with syn oils. just presenting the facts in my personal situation. just the results from A & B oils, same weight, 50W. sure glad i gave it a try, along with setting rocker end play, before changing oil. so i would know what quieted down what and how much

 

Just got back from Sturgis and still overly impressed. We ran 80mph all the way over and back and did about 3000 miles total with running around the blackhills. Even stuck on Lazalle street in the heat the oil temp stayed under 230*, last year with Mobil1 vtwin it was over 260 much of the time. Did not check the level while on the trip, got home checked it and it did not move on the dip stick, and still looks good.

 

I just changed mine to Valvoline VR1 SAE 50 today. based on the SM and the heat we are having in Texas should have gone to 60WT, but after reading as much as I could find on the subject (to include feed-back on this thread), the VR1 50 should work well.
Plus, at 3.69 at O'Reily's, it was hard to say no.
Time will tell....

BTW: I had M1 VT 20/50 in there before the change.

 

changed back to mobil 20-50 vtwin (bike was due for a change and cooler weather right around the corner) and all ready miss the valvoline 50 weight. put 350 miles on today and danged if I don't have the tick tick tick back. I know it does not hurt anything and a bike with 72,000 should have a few ticks but with the 50 weight it was sooo quiet.

 

I am running the VR1 50 wt. I think that I will try the VR1 20w50 for cooler weather.

 

Moto Guzzi the other v -twin is air cooled and their recommended oil is 60wt and these engines always go 100,000 miles or better,and just like a harley dont lug them and they just keep running. Duane5157

 

resurrecting this thread. Looking to stop the marble race in my 13 RGC. I have tried Amsoil, Redline, Castrol both Syn and Dino all 20/50 with no relief. I want to try a 50 weight but want to know how low of temp it can go to safely. I know what the specs say. Right now in Mass it is still 75 during day. I am not a cold weather rider. Consistently below 50 and I am not out much. I understand the cold start issue but will it do the bike harm at start and if I let it warm up before take off. Thanks for the time

 

Amsoil makes a 50wt synthetic for air-cooled V-twins. The riders manual for my '97 FLHPi even says it's OK to use 50 or 60wt in hot weather. But it says cold starts will be harder.

I sit in traffic at idle in 90+deg/90+ humidity during the summer and run HD 50wt.

 

AMSOIL does not make a straight 50W oil, but does make a straight 60W. I have some customers that like that grade to quiet the engine down some. I know it is natural to assume that noise relates to wear, but it certainly doesn't relate to wear in the Harley engine.

Petroleum oils seem to muffle noise in the Harley engine due to it's non uniform molecules that it is made up of. Where synthetics have 100% uniform molecules they do not muffle the sound as good, but generally offer better wear protection and of course higher temp protection.

Ever listen to a diesel engine? If that noise related to wear the engines would not last very long. That diesel sound is coming from the combustion and not metal to metal contact.
george

 

In reading the thread, am seeing owners running 50W to quiet things down in the hotter temps and that's valid. On the opposite side, if I were to run 50W when the temps drop below around 80* degrees, I could get some minor valve train noise, then it's time to switch back to 20W50.

Personal preference is Valvoline 20W50 for under 80* and Valvoline Racing Blend 50W or 60W for temps over 80*.

 

Something I agree on with Georgedouglas. Quiet does not mean better. Today's engine are designed to use lighter oils that flow better. At one time we mixed grease with 90W to quiet gear boxes down. I would not try that in today's bikes.
Running a good 50 or 60 in hot weather won't hurt. But the right 20/50 will do just as well and protect better on start ups.
Cost of Syn engine oils has come way down heck $9.50 a quart or so cheap insurance .

 

I have not ran a straight 50wt but might try it next spring. I have used both syn 20/50 and Dino 20/50. The dino is quieter, the oil pressure guage raises quicker at start up, and the pressure doesn't drop as far at an idle once warmed up. No more Syn for me.

One other thing I'll add is that if you start running the oils with added zinc you may experience issues with the Cat. I have not experienced this myself, but read it in a report from a lab. I've slept since then so I can't remember the name of the lab.

 

Let me ask you a few questions concerning your thoughts on oils and pressure. What is oil pressure indicative of? Why would a synthetic oil have lower pressure? In a HD engine, which is much different than a basic 4 stroke engine concerning bearing design, what builds up oil pressure?

Your statement concerning zinc is accurate, as this is why the EPA made the oil company's lower it in automotive oils.
george

 

The engine is mostly different because roller bearings are used for most bearing surfaces and only really need a drip of oil to keep working (slight exaggeration of oil flow).

 

I did not know that. Thanks.

Are the Crank and rod bearings roller bearings? Cam bearings?

Still seems to me that more is better when it comes to oil pressure.

 

Pressure means nothing more than resistance to flow.

I believe that there are certain times and certain models that higher oil pressure will cause the oil to bypass the filter and/or to bypass the oiler jets under the pistons.

You could create high oil pressure just by using the wrong filter or partially clogging a gallery. I'm sure that would not automatically equate to "better protection".

When the tolerance begins to loosen up on parts, they have more movement and make noise. Higher than normal oil pressure can mask that noise by "pushing" the part to one side of it's tolerance. The sound is gone because the part doesn't move freely but may experience abnormal wear on one side due to the excess pressure. The idea that something wears less because it is quieter is false.

 

Crank and cam are, don't Remember if the rod is. On some older engines the cams are in bushings.

 

When/if I hear clicking, clacking, ticking, and the like, that to me is metal banging into metal, and is not a good thing. I can see both points.... thicker oil would seem to provide more of a cushion and therefore quiet things down some, but flow might or would likely be restricted some. Thinner oil would move thru the engine more freely but would provide less of a cushion allowing the metal to metal thing.

So, is this thicker or thinner oil thing a win win or loose loose?

A master wrench with a PHD in metallurgy is needed here :blink:

 

Let's think for a minute what weight of oil these are designed to use? These multi-viscosity oils are supposed to thicken up when they get hot. But if you look at the owner's manual, they probably specify 50wt. in the aircooled engines as an alternative to multi-vis.

Wait until the water cooled stuff starts specifying 5w20 like most cars. No it isn't great for the cars, but it improves the mileage and makes them pass the EPA testing.

 

Let's think for a minute what weight of oil these are designed to use? These multi-viscosity oils are supposed to thicken up when they get hot. But if you look at the owner's manual, they probably specify 50wt. in the aircooled engines as an alternative to multi-vis.

Wait until the water cooled stuff starts specifying 5w20 like most cars. No it isn't great for the cars, but it improves the mileage and makes them pass the EPA testing.

Actually, it is just the opposite. The multi-viscosity oils have additives to keep them from thinning as they get hotter, i.e. 15W-50 is much thinner than 50 at room temp but by the time the oil reaches 100C, the 50 has thinned down to be about the same viscosity as the 15W-50.

 

Synthetic or Dyno?

Darn--this stuff is confusing.

 

Shouldn't be, for you. You have a new bike that is under warranty. You should use whatever the owner's manual says to use.

Out of warranty, with 30K+ miles, all you have to do is use each of the oils and decide for yourself. The worst thing you can do is use a type of oil simply because someone else says you should.

There is no doubt in my mind the synthetic oil was allowing the metal-metal knocking and clicking. That is/was removing miles from the longevity of my motor. No more Synthetic in the motor for me. I would never run synthetic with a wet clutch anyway, but I do run a semi syn in the gear box.

 

'nuther thought from the peanut gallery (me).... They say synth is more prone to thin out due to high/er engine heat. So, my question iz, considering good/name brand oil brands, will or would a 50 wt. synthetic oil retain its viscosity as well as a 50 wt. dino at 250-275 degrees.... will the synth thin out more??

 

Not sure who "they" are, but I've read that synthetics don't thicken as much when they cool as petroleum oils do, providing they are true group IV oils. So, basically, a synthetic oil can act like a multi-grade oil even if it is graded as a straight weight, with no viscosity improvers.

In other words, good synth oils are more stable so the answer to your question is "yes", in theory, it would hold viscosity better.

 

If you look at the tests, the synthetic does not thin as quickly as "natural" oil when it gets hots. Pretty sure Amsoil showed this with competing synthetics as well as "natural" oil. Either that or it might have been Mobile. Either way I remember a hot pan with oil spots and tipping them up the "natural" oil ran like water to the edge where the synthetics were a slower rate of travel.