I have not done it but it would be pretty simple to do. Connect your battery cable to one side of the Ford solenoid and the Shovel solenoid to the other side. Then wire the solenoid trigger off your existing starter solenoid.

This way when the starter button is hit, both solenoids turn on and the starter engages. However when you let go even if the starter sticks, the ford solenoid will not and that would disconnect the battery.

 

It's caused by friction holding the jack shaft into the starter ring gear. Can be a lot of issues, primary bushing, fork alignment solenoid issues, or just being a crappy mickey mouse set up to begin with.

But the Ford starter relay has been the go to fix for 40 years or more.

 

Thanks, Guys! I figure the Ford solenoid is the safest bet. With a shovelhead, it's always only a matter of time before something goes out of alignment. It's pretty scary when the battery starts screaming and smoking and there's nothing I can do about it quick enough to make a difference. I just have to find an unobtrusive spot to mount that solenoid. I've got both the '82 FLH Electra Glide and the '82 FXRS. The FLH is a tank; everything is beefier on it.

 

I can possibly see the merit in having the redundant solenoid to act as a safety feature, but if I install the ford starter solenoid, is there really any reason to keep the OEM HD solenoid wired in the circuit. I mean, all the starter solenoid appears to do is apply the battery voltage to the starter terminal. Thanks.

 

The Ford solenoid carry's the electrical power for the starter motor and is completely reliant on magnetism to make contact. Its not linked to the fork on the jackshaft. The oem solenoid only pushes the Bendix along the jackshaft and into the ring gear. The cable between the oem solenoid and the starter is disconnected. It no longer provides power to the starter motor. So if it hangs, the starter still stops when you let off the switch. Both solenoids activate at the same time, but the ford unit supplying power to the starter is not dependent on the jack shaft releasing to power down the starter motor.

 

The stock solenoid engages the starter drive gear.

 

The Ford solenoid acts as a relay. The stock one actually engages the starter drive gear. Using the Ford solenoid or a relay allows higher current flow to the stock relay, eliminates the high current flow through the tiny starter switch, and provides a positive disconnect when you release the starter button. Using a relay rather than the Ford solenoid would do the same thing, while reducing current flow through the switch even more. While wiring in the relay or solenoid, go ahead and up the wire size from the battery to the new relay and from the relay to the stock solenoid. Use stock wires through the switch to control the relay.

 

The Ford solenoid acts as a relay.

This is correct since a solenoid is a relay.

The stock one actually engages the starter drive gear.

This is also correct.

Using the Ford solenoid or a relay allows higher current flow to the stock relay, eliminates the high current flow through the tiny starter switch, and provides a positive disconnect when you release the starter button.

I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense. There is already a starter relay between the starter button on the handle bars and the solenoid on the starter. The Ford solenoid would attach to the existing starter relay. There would not be any increase or decrease in the current through the starter switch.

Using a relay rather than the Ford solenoid would do the same thing, while reducing current flow through the switch even more.

A "relay" would not work. The Ford solenoid is switching the Battery cable going to the stock solenoid. Again No effect on the starter switch.

While wiring in the relay or solenoid, go ahead and up the wire size from the battery to the new relay and from the relay to the stock solenoid. Use stock wires through the switch to control the relay.

Maybe you are not following the original question. The Ford solenoid is not being used as a go between for the starter switch and the stock solenoid. It is being used as a battery cut off to the stock solenoid.

For clarity the Ford solenoid is actually a relay. The stock solenoid is a solenoid because it engages the starter mechanically as well as acting as a switch.

 

Sorry, I was a bit confused. The factory manual wiring diagram did not show the mechanical plunger connection between the solenoid and the starter. I was thinking that the starter was more like a ford starter where the solenoid only provided battery voltage to the starter. This is more like a chevy solenoid and starter where there is actually a mechanical shifter collar that engages the drive gear. So, thanks for all of the input. I get it now. I will just use the ford solenoid to break the battery cable connection to the solenoid.

 

This is more like a chevy solenoid and starter where there is actually a mechanical shifter collar that engages the drive gear.

Now you've got it. And since you've got it, it'll be easier to trouble shoot from here on out.

 

You have some very good advice. The should already have the Ford style solenoid installed. If your not the original owner, you'll never know. Most times they where replaces with a solid state relay. One thing not mentioned is, that causes this condition. It takes power to energize the starter solenoid and it takes to de-energize/shut it off.
Of my three Shovelheads I own that are running. I have a shut off, a complete break in the starter CKT that stops this from happening. Its a keyed on/off switch in the starter ground CKT. It does two things works as a anti-theft device and anti starter run on.

When your bike is not in use a battery tender is your best buddy.

Ken

 

I don't agree with interrupting the starter ground ckt



Actually, it is very easy to determine whether or not you already have a Ford starter solenoid installed. Having been a mechanic since I was trained in the Army 45 years ago, and having served as a Naval aviation electronics technician for 22 years, before becoming a manufacturing engineer, I can say that it is not normally a good practice to interrupt the ground circuit as a way to disable a single system. It has a way of introducing a number of gremlins. Anyway, I do not believe that breaking the ground to the OEM starter solenoid will stop the starter if it continues to turn. The starter is already grounded and you need to interrupt the positive feed to the starter. IMHO.

 

Nobody is questioning your ability as a qualified tech,wrench,mechanic. Which title you chose to use. But you asked the question about shovelhead's. And shovels have there own set of rules and fixes, from years of trials and errors. From many guys before us, and boat loads of money throw at them.
And it seems that some of the fixes are very simple. While others are complex. Today's shovels are very capable of delivering many trouble free miles of riding enjoyment. Along with many miles of no oil leaks. My two shovels that I ride, one daily does not leak.

Back to your issue. So a fix would sound a bit different than the norm. Yes you wouldn't want to take away the ground CKT on most vehicles. But were working on a very simple CKT, with nothing that would be affected by a ground CKT open.
You have to look at battery voltage as not 12 volts. But as a signal, which it is. It causes things to react, with or without ground.
One of the big three auto manufactures uses a ground on and off to control of its vehicles management systems. While the other two manufactures use 12v. on and off to operate all its management systems.
GM and Ford use a 12 volt power on to operate the vehicles. Chrysler built vehicles uses ground to turn systems on and off. to trigger relays, everything. That's way most guys complain that Chrysler/Dodge vehicles are such a pain in the butt to work on.

Harley Davidson Fuel Injection system is a close copy of the Speed Density fuel injection that Chrysler has also run for years. Its a basic system, set up with fewer parts. It works off the MAP,O2,TPS,ECT. The others use a system based off the Mass Airflow sensor which would be a design nightmare, on motorcycles.

So long story short. You can turn off your ground on your shovel and not hurt a thing. Also remember it takes power to turn a relay on, and to turn it off also.

Ken

 

Finally installed Ford solenoid in my ‘82 FLH 80

I had so many projects going on that the ‘82 FLH sat in limbo since my last post. I finally got around to installing the Ford solenoid and a new battery. What a relief; works great and I don’t have to worry about smoking another battery. I actually installed this in a cavity under the seat. I attached photo which was a big help; sorry, can’t remember who provided it. The key was disconnecting the wire from the starter relay to the starter solenoid, attaching a jumper from the battery terminal to the starter terminal on the starter solenoid, and then connecting the starter relay wire that was disconnected from the starter solenoid, to the Ford solenoid. That way, the relay is still activated by the starter button, but the Ford solenoid ensures that power is delivered to the starter solenoid, and subsequently the starter, only when the starter button is depressed.

 

Just wondering if it would work running the button wire straight to the Ford solenoid and getting rid of the factory one altogether or does the coil on the Ford take too much juice for the button?

Sent from here to there.

 

Re: Eliminating OEM Starter Relay

I thought of that myself, but decided not to risk anything since the relays are so readily available and easy to replace. I suppose you could find out if you made the jumper on the solenoid a wire as small or smaller Guage than the one going to the relay. It that burns out, then you would have your answer. :laugh:

 

Bolt the Ford Solenoid under the battery box. It will be easy to get to if needed in the future.

 

Early Shovelheads came stock with the ford style relay. Or 'upper solenoid". The lighter duty little square relay replaced it . It works ok, but when you have a low battery or higher compression, It tends to melt. A lot of guys went back to the more robust ford relay. Also don't be cheap with the lower solenoid. The contacts get burned and arc fast. When they do, it takes more amperage to turn the starter. That's what burns up the upper relay. On some Harley (Eagle Iron) branded ones, We had to take the cover off the solenoid and cut a coil off the spring, So it would make a solid connection. The battery cables can be problematic, too. The cheap ones have the ends just swedged on. The cable works loose in the end. So that even though the hardware is tight you have a loose connection.