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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How come you do not see many andrews tw21 builds? seems like a good choice for a bagger. Seems like stage 1 95 with a 21 should be around 80hp/90tq. Would it drink gas being such a low rpm torquer?
 

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Highly Seasoned Rider!
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Mtclassic said:
How come you do not see many andrews tw21 builds? seems like a good choice for a bagger. Seems like stage 1 95 with a 21 should be around 80hp/90tq. Would it drink gas being such a low rpm torquer?
I guess it's just not radical enough for most people. For some reason, many who modify will often go for the maximum in the cam area without thinking about how it works in traffic, etc.

I'll probably go to a gear drive in the near future and I''ll be looking at something like a 21G. That's all I would need. Actually, I just want the gears. I'm pretty happy with a stock bike. I have excellent torque from 1,400 rpm and that's where I like it.

My 2 cents.
 

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Mtclassic said:
How come you do not see many andrews tw21 builds? seems like a good choice for a bagger. Seems like stage 1 95 with a 21 should be around 80hp/90tq. Would it drink gas being such a low rpm torquer?
I believe most people are taken with peak numbers and don't realize where they actually ride. You see a lot of dyno graphs posted that people are really proud of where torque doesn't cross 90 lb-ft until 3000-3500 rpm. I saw one the other day from a 95 where torque was below 60 up to 2500 rpm, that's worse than a stock 88. If you ride up there above 3000 most of the time, that's fine. I usually shift at 3000 or even less, so one of those cams wouldn't be right for me. I have 203 cams in my Dyna and am quite happy with where the torque is. So what if torque nose dives at 4000 rpm, I almost never go that high.
Baggers need torque cams and "light" bikes (Dynas) need horsepower cams is another myth I don't agree with. If I ride my Dyna in the lower rpm range 99%of the time, I need torque cams, too. I checked my cam chain tensioners last week at 20,000 miles and was kind of disappointed that they were worn very little, I was hoping they would be shot and I could change to TW21 cams!
In the real world, if you ride conservatively, a 21 or 26 will serve you better than a 37. JMHO.
 

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Just finished installing 21G's, 95 BB, and Baisley spring in my new Ultra. Have not had a chance to log to many miles given the weather conditions here and all the black ice. She does feel like she could pull stumps without thinking twice.:thumbsup:
 

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I looked at the 21G and the 26G and went with the 26G. I think I have plenty of low end for a otherwise stock 88" EG. SE air cleaner and slip on mufflers also.
I ride between 2200 and 3500 RPM so the 26G fits nicely in that range.
21G seemed like not quit enough for me, just looking at the numbers. 37G was too radical for my riding style with stock heads.
Just my opinion, but the 26G makes an excellent cam for a bagger.
 

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Just finished installing 21G's, 95 BB, and Baisley spring in my new Ultra. Have not had a chance to log to many miles given the weather conditions here and all the black ice. She does feel like she could pull stumps without thinking twice
This is exactly the type build I'm considering, I'm interested to hear a full ride report when you've had enough good weather so you can put some miles on it. I think this combo would suit me well, 11,000 miles and I've never bumped the rev limiter yet.
 

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There you go! It is all about how you ride. I have an '05 RG and almost always shift between 3500 and 4200 rpm. I virtually never race from light to light and like to cruise around 3000 rpm. I have a mild build that's got 90 ft/lbs of torque at 2500 rpm and goes up to 105 ft/lbs by 3300 rpms. It's perfect for me and a gas to ride. I'd just leave it stock before I used a TW-21. The 26 is a different story and would be my choice if I hadn't wanted a little more top end.
 

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Mtclassic said:
How come you do not see many andrews tw21 builds? seems like a good choice for a bagger. Seems like stage 1 95 with a 21 should be around 80hp/90tq. Would it drink gas being such a low rpm torquer?
Check out the dyno section, I posted a couple of 95" TW21 dynos.
 

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88'' narrow torq band

I've got an 88'' fxd w/ 21g's.It pulls nicely from 2500 but dies around 4000. Coming from a mild shovel(82 fxr),the stage one seemed very powerful.I went with a 21 just to get rid of the chains.This winter i'll do some mild headwork and a low comp bb.
 

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rodriguc said:
Here's my former 21G build results.
What were the other components you had mated with your 21G?

BB?
Heads?
Exhaust?
Fuel Mgmt?

Thanks
 

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bedemonster said:
What were the other components you had mated with your 21G?

BB?
Heads?
Exhaust?
Fuel Mgmt?

Thanks
At that time, I had the following set-up:

'02 Road King Classic - Pearl White
95" w/ KB flat tops pistons
AMS bored cylinders & ported heads w/stock-size valves
Cometic .040" head gaskets (9.2:1)
Andrews 21G cams w/S&S cam gears
V&H ProPipe HS
PCIIIr
3.15 final gear ratio
SE Air Cleaner
SE clutch spring
 

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Just thought I would post a follow up on my build now that I have put a few more miles on it. The build constist of the following components:

SE 95" BB
SE Flat Tops (Cast)
06 Stock Heads (no headwork) see info below;

"Heads were 02 and 06 Both front and rear. Both sets dissassembled bead blasted and reassembled. I made 1" radious inlets for both sets to keep it fair and even. Heads are completely stock and spotless clean." http://www.msnusers.com/harleytechtalk/msgattachments/40714 http://www.msnusers.com/harleytechtalk/msgattachments/40717

Cometic .030
Andrews 21G Cams with S&S Gears
Baisley oil spring
SE AC/w K&N HD-0800
SERT v 4.50
V&H Tru-Dual Headers
Rush Slip-ons w/ 2 inch baffles
3.15 Gearing

All I can say is this thing goes from 60 to 90 mph in 5th gear very quickly. I can't believe how fast this thing eats up the rpms in each gear.:yikes: 5th gear roll on's are arm stretching to say the least. I could not be happier with the peformance of this build. I am using the Daytona TwinScan+ with the Wego 02 sensor to tune the VE of each cylinder and AFR on the SERT.

This bike seems to pull much stronger up to 4300 - 4400 rpm's than my 05 Heritage Classic Softail which consisted of the following components:

Rev Perf. 98" BB
Flat Tops (CP Forged)
05 Heads with Dan Baisley Headwork & Spring set-up for 37's
Cometic .030
Baisley spring
Andrews 37G Cams w S&S Gears
SE AC with K&N
Daytona Twintec TCFI II w/Wego Sensor
Bassani Tru-Duals for Softail
Bassani Slip-ons
3.15 Gearing

The dyno #'s (SAE) on the Heritage were great 109 tq at 3800 & 105 hp but the Ultra with the 21s seems much faster. I had the combo speedo/tach on the softail and do not recall it eating up the rpms as quickly. Even my kids (who are frequent passengers) all think the Ultra is much faster. For sure the 5th gear roll-on's are no comparison, the Ultra feels like a rocket whenever I twist the throttle. The response is dramatic and instantaneous. I plan to get the Ultra on a dyno sometime in the spring or summer; and regardless of what the dyno says, the big $hit eating grin on my face says this build is much more fun:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Bedemonster, I have 21's ready to go and already have SE flattops installed. I have a baisley spring and 2:1 Supertrapp. I do have the stock head gasket so hopefully that will not kill me to bad. I do not want to pull the heads at this time. Did you notice any diff. with the baisley spring? I am going back and forth as whether or not to use it. I am a little concerned with how stiff it is. It is much stouter than I anticiapted. I am making 76hp and 86tq with stock cams and I will be happy if I make 80/90 with just he cam change. thanks jeff
 

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Jeff,

I love the Baisley springs; which one do you have? The LMR 2 or LMR 4?

The LMR 2 will have your hot idle oil pressure at about 8. The LMR 4 will have your hot idle somewhere between 12-15. I'm currently running the 4 but either will work just fine. With an air cooled motor and stop and go traffic it is good peace of mind to know the top-end is not starving in extreme conditions.

Ben
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
the package instructions say it is the lmr2, but it seems like a really stiff spring for its intended use.
 

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Jeff,

The LMR 2 is 1.800 inches long and the LMR 4 is slightly longer by about 3/16th of an inch.

Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ben, I measured it and it is 1.8" it just seems like it is pretty darn stiff. I guess it is supposed to be, but it seems like it would take a lot of pressure to open the valve. Did you notice any difference in engine noise after installing the spring? thanks jeff
 
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