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so we have a bearing that requires lots of labor to install, and all we know is it has a black outer race. this outer race will be less likely to explode?????????? what would cause an outer race to explode? thats funny. is it made of plastic? starting to sound like just another inneficient part labled SE-------------again, par for course!


maybe someone has a better reason for this upgrade?
 

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Dennis...you might be on to something....

stock on left ......s/e on right...


S/e on top, stock on bottom



stock with 23k miles




S/e.....0 miles

 

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Dennis...you might be on to something....

stock on left ......s/e on right...


S/e on top, stock on bottom



stock with 23k miles




S/e.....0 miles

Great pics TX, now cut them suckers in half so we can really see what's going on.
 

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Clearance

Bob, might have and old one a customer didnt want back...Will take pics if i do.
Dan,
Do these bearings have the clearance spec marked on them? C3??

Cheers
 

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Controversial topic and opinions abound but few based on engineering principals and design constraints of the parts factored with the loads. Easy to copy legacy as is done so much of the time but that impedes progress and growth.

Not set in an opinion on the topic. I would like to believe there is no longer a left side bearing issue and a Timken is no longer needed, as this would enable so many more garage mechanics to do bottom end work without fear of complexities. We don't see any case bearing failures lately, it seems. We do see exponentially more crank issues however.
P/N 24004-03A is the latest and greatest bearing offered by HD

Quoted from another website
I asked John at Darkhorse the question and his response was "why not but let me check on it." Believe it or not, he suggested that the Timken left side upgrade was probably not necessary with what he's seen. He also stated that the roller bearings may even be preferable due to the fact that the stock cases are no longer line bored. The roller bearing supported cranks "self-align" better.

Interested in counterpoints based on facts and real world experiences.
I believe John's statement referenced a "street motor". Now, what's the definition of a street motor? LOL. 10 people, 10 answers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
So, in a large high torque, say 117 application, such as Chop's bagger, would a Hoban prepped crank hold up w/ the SE roller bearing? Has anyone tried this......
 

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So, in a large high torque, say 117 application, such as Chop's bagger, would a Hoban prepped crank hold up w/ the SE roller bearing? Has anyone tried this......
I think the Hoban crank will hold up, the question is will the bearing and the case hold up? All interesting food for thought. I'm still running rollers on my 103 Wood's cammed stump puller, and doing fine so far...........
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Would a stock 4.375 crank (non-hobanized) in a Timken equipped bike hold up in say a stout 103 or 107?

How many 02 and prior 95" twin cams w/ stock cranks are still holding up.

what about the earlier all bore 107's..... did guys prep the cranks in these?

how much weaker is the 4.375 stocker vs the old 4.00 crank?
 

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I am not in love with the change they made to the late rods. The old bushings were wider and not a typical problem area. The new ones too early to tell or have others seen failures or premature wear?
The wheels are not a machined forged billet so many have the impression they are "weaker" but we have not seen any break have we? They are definately less expensive to produce but that is not conclusive evidence they are weaker. I don't think the late cranks are much weaker, just the press fit is less. I have had this fact confirmed by my local crank shop that takes them apart. He is amazed at how easy the new ones press apart compared to the older units. Why is this?? I can only speculate but it is real.
 

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Did a 116" S&S kit in a Softail in 2003.
Ripped mid-upper 130's square. He ran it hard as well.
No conversion was done, as they were not even on the market yet.
Brought it back in as he had a "vibration".
Flywheels had slipped on the crankpin. At that point we Installed a Timken conversion set-up, and Hoban Bros. took care of the crank.
NO issues were witnessed with the left roller bearing at the point of tear down.:)
Scott
 

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I have to drop a line on this one as some of my comments applied in a little different context can change what I am trying to say.

Let me start off by saying that a Timken bearing is an upgrade to the flat roller bearing in our application if done properly. Late model HD cases can have case bore mis-alignment and if you do not address that issue and tighten the tolerance with regards to a Timken upgrade and do not address misalignment you can have big trouble.

I have made the statement before in regards to budget. If your budget only allows x amount of dollars and you can only afford to do address flywheels (ie: truing/pro-plugging/service) or Timken upgrade in most cases I advise to address flywheels 1st if bike will be treated with respect.

If you are self proclaimed hard on equipment, the Timken bearing is certainly recommended by us and I believe just about everyone in the industry. I just recommend that you measure case bore alignment to insure that your cases can tolerate the tightening of tolerances. This is why we now always ask for both case 1/2s when doing this procedure.

I have not witnessed 1 black bearing failure. I have seen many 00A/00B/00C/00D and I advise anyone to upgrade to the black beaing at a minimum when your flywheels have been removed from the cases as it is a better bearing, plain and simple.

One of my common statements is always: You never know you needed a Timken bearing until you actually find out you needed one. Meaning, we do not have a crystal ball to tell anyone exactly what the threshold is, stock - most all seem to be fine, anything over that and depending on how you ride will be the determining factor.

Does the Timken bearing help stabilize the flywheel assembly as a whole, absolutely. Does it do a better job than our Pro-plug, I do not believe so and that is why we are now finding many people starting to copy it.

There are so many factors that go into HD flywheels becoming untrue. We use a system when it comes to servicing flywheels and it really works, have been for over 8 years now in regards to HD pressed wheels, 30 years for tapered shafts. We do not step out of the box when it comes to our system.

We will not simply true and weld a used set of wheels. To do that on a 07' and up set of wheels is suicide as the centers that have been used in the past as a datum have the potential to be destroyed. There are a certain number of people now who are attempting to do off V blocks, we do not use this process when it comes to late model HD OEM flywheels as its engineering is also flawed, but we can get into that another day as I am no typist.

Another common statement that really bothers me is guys calling the late model wheels cast, which is not true by a long shot. They are cold forged, if they had been cast it would a whole other spin on wheels, no pun intended. Cold forging is actually stronger and costs more, but tolerance can be tighter from the forging which allowed HD to cut machining costs dramatically and actually save $ in the end.

Sorry for the length of this, but I hope it helps in bringing some of my statements into context. I always try to answer questions openly and honestly when talking with dealers or customers, but each time it is directly related to the situation at hand. Everyone's situation can be different and what works in one deal may not in another. No one should ever be afraid to call me in regards to their issue at hand,

My last common statement is always "do not believe everything you read on the internet!" I always cringe a bit when I read John from Darkhorse told me "this or that" because whatever I had said was most likely directly for the situation at hand and not a blanket policy of ours.

Not trying to scold as everyone is trying to help another out, just scares me a bit when I see it in regards to someones specific situation.

Now, lets ride to Daytona and have some fun. I will be at Daytona International Speedway campaigning our #70 Buell 1125R in the AMA endurance MotoGT series, racing on Friday March 6th if anybody wants to come and check it out.

John
 

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John..Wonderful post and again thanks for the 3 cranks you did a wonderful/perfect job on!!

@gree::clap::clap:

Maybe i will see you in Daytona.........
 

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I have to drop a line on this one as some of my comments applied in a little different context can change what I am trying to say.

Let me start off by saying that a Timken bearing is an upgrade to the flat roller bearing in our application if done properly. Late model HD cases can have case bore mis-alignment and if you do not address that issue and tighten the tolerance with regards to a Timken upgrade and do not address misalignment you can have big trouble.

I have made the statement before in regards to budget. If your budget only allows x amount of dollars and you can only afford to do address flywheels (ie: truing/pro-plugging/service) or Timken upgrade in most cases I advise to address flywheels 1st if bike will be treated with respect.

If you are self proclaimed hard on equipment, the Timken bearing is certainly recommended by us and I believe just about everyone in the industry. I just recommend that you measure case bore alignment to insure that your cases can tolerate the tightening of tolerances. This is why we now always ask for both case 1/2s when doing this procedure.

I have not witnessed 1 black bearing failure. I have seen many 00A/00B/00C/00D and I advise anyone to upgrade to the black beaing at a minimum when your flywheels have been removed from the cases as it is a better bearing, plain and simple.

One of my common statements is always: You never know you needed a Timken bearing until you actually find out you needed one. Meaning, we do not have a crystal ball to tell anyone exactly what the threshold is, stock - most all seem to be fine, anything over that and depending on how you ride will be the determining factor.

Does the Timken bearing help stabilize the flywheel assembly as a whole, absolutely. Does it do a better job than our Pro-plug, I do not believe so and that is why we are now finding many people starting to copy it.

There are so many factors that go into HD flywheels becoming untrue. We use a system when it comes to servicing flywheels and it really works, have been for over 8 years now in regards to HD pressed wheels, 30 years for tapered shafts. We do not step out of the box when it comes to our system.

We will not simply true and weld a used set of wheels. To do that on a 07' and up set of wheels is suicide as the centers that have been used in the past as a datum have the potential to be destroyed. There are a certain number of people now who are attempting to do off V blocks, we do not use this process when it comes to late model HD OEM flywheels as its engineering is also flawed, but we can get into that another day as I am no typist.

Another common statement that really bothers me is guys calling the late model wheels cast, which is not true by a long shot. They are cold forged, if they had been cast it would a whole other spin on wheels, no pun intended. Cold forging is actually stronger and costs more, but tolerance can be tighter from the forging which allowed HD to cut machining costs dramatically and actually save $ in the end.

Sorry for the length of this, but I hope it helps in bringing some of my statements into context. I always try to answer questions openly and honestly when talking with dealers or customers, but each time it is directly related to the situation at hand. Everyone's situation can be different and what works in one deal may not in another. No one should ever be afraid to call me in regards to their issue at hand,

My last common statement is always "do not believe everything you read on the internet!" I always cringe a bit when I read John from Darkhorse told me "this or that" because whatever I had said was most likely directly for the situation at hand and not a blanket policy of ours.

Not trying to scold as everyone is trying to help another out, just scares me a bit when I see it in regards to someones specific situation.

Now, lets ride to Daytona and have some fun. I will be at Daytona International Speedway campaigning our #70 Buell 1125R in the AMA endurance MotoGT series, racing on Friday March 6th if anybody wants to come and check it out.

John
Amen!!!!!!!!:)
Scott
 

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John;
Sure is nice when someone like you can come on here and clear up a lot of misconceptions about the flywheels. Was a pretty entrenched belief here that the new flywheels were cast vs cold forged. If HD increased the interference fit another thou or two would the slipping problem be solved or would that cause other problems? Possibly gauling or extruding of the flywheels?
Joel 2001 FLHT
 

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I have to drop a line on this one as some of my comments applied in a little different context can change what I am trying to say.

Let me start off by saying that a Timken bearing is an upgrade to the flat roller bearing in our application if done properly. Late model HD cases can have case bore mis-alignment and if you do not address that issue and tighten the tolerance with regards to a Timken upgrade and do not address misalignment you can have big trouble.

I have made the statement before in regards to budget. If your budget only allows x amount of dollars and you can only afford to do address flywheels (ie: truing/pro-plugging/service) or Timken upgrade in most cases I advise to address flywheels 1st if bike will be treated with respect.

If you are self proclaimed hard on equipment, the Timken bearing is certainly recommended by us and I believe just about everyone in the industry. I just recommend that you measure case bore alignment to insure that your cases can tolerate the tightening of tolerances. This is why we now always ask for both case 1/2s when doing this procedure.

I have not witnessed 1 black bearing failure. I have seen many 00A/00B/00C/00D and I advise anyone to upgrade to the black beaing at a minimum when your flywheels have been removed from the cases as it is a better bearing, plain and simple.

One of my common statements is always: You never know you needed a Timken bearing until you actually find out you needed one. Meaning, we do not have a crystal ball to tell anyone exactly what the threshold is, stock - most all seem to be fine, anything over that and depending on how you ride will be the determining factor.

Does the Timken bearing help stabilize the flywheel assembly as a whole, absolutely. Does it do a better job than our Pro-plug, I do not believe so and that is why we are now finding many people starting to copy it.

There are so many factors that go into HD flywheels becoming untrue. We use a system when it comes to servicing flywheels and it really works, have been for over 8 years now in regards to HD pressed wheels, 30 years for tapered shafts. We do not step out of the box when it comes to our system.

We will not simply true and weld a used set of wheels. To do that on a 07' and up set of wheels is suicide as the centers that have been used in the past as a datum have the potential to be destroyed. There are a certain number of people now who are attempting to do off V blocks, we do not use this process when it comes to late model HD OEM flywheels as its engineering is also flawed, but we can get into that another day as I am no typist.

Another common statement that really bothers me is guys calling the late model wheels cast, which is not true by a long shot. They are cold forged, if they had been cast it would a whole other spin on wheels, no pun intended. Cold forging is actually stronger and costs more, but tolerance can be tighter from the forging which allowed HD to cut machining costs dramatically and actually save $ in the end.

Sorry for the length of this, but I hope it helps in bringing some of my statements into context. I always try to answer questions openly and honestly when talking with dealers or customers, but each time it is directly related to the situation at hand. Everyone's situation can be different and what works in one deal may not in another. No one should ever be afraid to call me in regards to their issue at hand,

My last common statement is always "do not believe everything you read on the internet!" I always cringe a bit when I read John from Darkhorse told me "this or that" because whatever I had said was most likely directly for the situation at hand and not a blanket policy of ours.

Not trying to scold as everyone is trying to help another out, just scares me a bit when I see it in regards to someones specific situation.

Now, lets ride to Daytona and have some fun. I will be at Daytona International Speedway campaigning our #70 Buell 1125R in the AMA endurance MotoGT series, racing on Friday March 6th if anybody wants to come and check it out.

John


I'll be there watching you race... Good Luck...:clap::clap::clap:
 
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