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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone ever tried running a trued/welded crank w/out doing a Timken?

Just doing some thinking.
You hear of flywheels shifting all the time, but, never heard of an actual roller bearing failure.

yes, the timken is stronger, but, would a welded crank last in a roller bearing setup case?
 

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0043--Licensed to Doof!
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I'm running a 103 with a Darkhorse crank. I still have the stock roller on the left side. No issues yet. The timken would be stronger and smoother, but I'm a tight wad!!
 

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I just finished my 103 build also with welded crank, went with the screamin eagle lefty bearing on both sides. Don't have many miles on it yet but I couldn't imagine any problems.
 

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geezer. what kind of power are you making and how hard to you ride it?
Bunches and hard.

Haven't been up on the dyno yet, but my assdyno says it's strong. I don't pu$$y it either. If I break it, I fix it.
 

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Same here, Darkhorse recommended it but said it wasn't necessary for normal builds. Mike
 

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Controversial topic and opinions abound but few based on engineering principals and design constraints of the parts factored with the loads. Easy to copy legacy as is done so much of the time but that impedes progress and growth.

Not set in an opinion on the topic. I would like to believe there is no longer a left side bearing issue and a Timken is no longer needed, as this would enable so many more garage mechanics to do bottom end work without fear of complexities. We don't see any case bearing failures lately, it seems. We do see exponentially more crank issues however.
P/N 24004-03A is the latest and greatest bearing offered by HD

Quoted from another website
I asked John at Darkhorse the question and his response was "why not but let me check on it." Believe it or not, he suggested that the Timken left side upgrade was probably not necessary with what he's seen. He also stated that the roller bearings may even be preferable due to the fact that the stock cases are no longer line bored. The roller bearing supported cranks "self-align" better.

Interested in counterpoints based on facts and real world experiences.
 

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Controversial topic and opinions abound but few based on engineering principals and design constraints of the parts factored with the loads. Easy to copy legacy as is done so much of the time but that impedes progress and growth.

Not set in an opinion on the topic. I would like to believe there is no longer a left side bearing issue and a Timken is no longer needed, as this would enable so many more garage mechanics to do bottom end work without fear of complexities. We don't see any case bearing failures lately, it seems. We do see exponentially more crank issues however.
P/N 24004-03A is the latest and greatest bearing offered by HD

Quoted from another website
I asked John at Darkhorse the question and his response was "why not but let me check on it." Believe it or not, he suggested that the Timken left side upgrade was probably not necessary with what he's seen. He also stated that the roller bearings may even be preferable due to the fact that the stock cases are no longer line bored. The roller bearing supported cranks "self-align" better.

Interested in counterpoints based on facts and real world experiences.
can you reapeat that in english? LOL. so evidence shows that external bearing supports on a rolller bearing engine would be better that a timken motor----even at the drag strip? have often wondered if the timken could control radial loads as well as a roller, but i am just a ******* ******* without a degree. obvious the timken can can control axial movement better, but hey--if side loading is eliminated or lessened with the twin cam, then should we put money on the roller? think of a worked suzuki pro stock, serious rpm and HP, leaving with a big slick, are they concerned with it sucking the crank out the side of the motor, or pulling the crank toward the tranny? also look at the load on a motorcross bike WFO hitting the ground and hooking hard at full power, all roller!!!

not trying to be an engineer, and havnt stayed at holliday inn express, but have always been curious about this.

would truly love to hear from an engineers point of view.
 

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Yes me too. I know the advantages of the Timken and thrust load handling but is this now addressed adequately with the new lefty roller?
I am sure many would say NO WAY but I ask for evidence. I am truly on the fence especially when someone like John at Hoban says otherwise. Of course we are all smart enough to know his words are paraphrased and out of the context of a much longer conversation
 

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How many Evo's has one seen,with wallowed out Timkin spacer grooves,and early ones with cast in inserts(Timkin),that pulled loose in the case.:eek: I've had some big power Twinkies,roller bearings,with no issues what so ever.
Just food for thought.
John
 

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My own preference...

107 and down i leave it up to the customer. If the extra money is there, fine. No problem we wil install a timken. I will install and stand behind either way.

If a customer wants a 113 or up, he has no choice from me. Timken or no build.
That ways theres one less thing too keep me up at night.

I do have 2 very stong 103's running around with welded cranks and 2 S/E crank bearings. Not a problem with either.
 

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okay, they dont let me out much and i went to public school in louisiana. so, what is the lefty bearing? how is it different from oem left side bearing, does it require special tooling or maching to install, and what is cost? also, is this something that can be done with a fafnir or other beraing if one has replacement specs I.E.------bore case to fit?

and lastly, does the pinion side bearing complement, or does it need replaced with better bearing also?

thanks
 

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Has anyone ever tried running a trued/welded crank w/out doing a Timken?

Just doing some thinking.
You hear of flywheels shifting all the time, but, never heard of an actual roller bearing failure.

yes, the timken is stronger, but, would a welded crank last in a roller bearing setup case?
Seems to me that when they fixed the compensator nut from coming loose all the time, that the roller bearing problem disappeared too.I dont think it was just coincidence.
Joel 2001 FLHT
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
maybe those that have big inch non-timken builds will hopefully chime in with their results and mileages to date..
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
okay, they dont let me out much and i went to public school in louisiana. so, what is the lefty bearing? how is it different from oem left side bearing, does it require special tooling or maching to install, and what is cost? also, is this something that can be done with a fafnir or other beraing if one has replacement specs I.E.------bore case to fit?

and lastly, does the pinion side bearing complement, or does it need replaced with better bearing also?

thanks
here you go clay

http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/...4302292259&bmUID=1235341404924&bmLocale=en_US
 

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i had a welded 95 before i went 107. no timkin. cruisin down the road at 60 mph, engine started knocking terrible. come to find, welds broke loose on one side of pin, tore my cam plate and oil pump to bits.that was about 2 months worth of riding. adapted to timkin and had one great season last year without any worry.
 

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The only difference I could see is the outer race is black. I read somewhere that the problem was the outer race exploding and this must address that problem. For $40, what the heck. Mike
 
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