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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
A Warning About Sonoran Motorsports in Scottsdale, AZ

I planned a week long trip (April 18 - 25) to Phoenix and decided to rent a bike while there. Due to all the trails throughout the state, I wanted an enduro style bike, particularly the BMW R1200GS, but I was calling only a month prior to my trip, and though I called several bike rental shops, I could not find one available for rent.

Somehow I got Sonoran Motorsports of Scottsdale on the phone. They had a street bike available -- a nice touring model. So I reserved it. This was a full four weeks prior to my trip. The price was high, $145 per day plus taxes and insurance, and I was quoted the very high price of over $1500 for the full week. I resigned to pay.

Four days later I received a call from MC TOURS, also in Scottsdale. Someone had cancelled their reservation on the BMW R1200GS, making it available to me! I was very happy and reserved this preferred bike for the full week. (MC TOURS turned out to be a fantastic gig, really great people, and I would highly recommend them to anyone.)

The next day I called Sonoran back to cancel the street touring bike. This was 22 days before my arrival. After I told them I wanted to cancel, one of the guys there, Jeff, said they would keep $350 of my deposit. (Actually, he said they would graciously give me $350 of store credit. Their store is in Arizona. I live in Virginia Beach. Not to mention, I don't want to spend $350 in their store. I wanted my deposit back.)

Now I might understand a $25 or even $50 - $100 fee for cancelling. I wouldn't be happy about it, but I wouldn't complain either. But $350!?!?!?

Their justification for keeping such a huge amount was that my holding this bike reserved for FIVE DAYS before I called to cancel results in their losing money. Even though I happen to know that this bike was not reserved prior to my call, and it has not been rented since. To be fair, their small text clearly says they will charge $50 per day reserved in non-refundable deposit (7 day rental * $50 per day = $350).

I am going to post the letter I wrote to them after they told me on the phone that they were keeping my $350, to which I stated "Thanks" and hung up.

Then I will post the letter they wrote back to me (that's what I really want you to see)!
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
My written letter to Sonoran Motorsports:

Sonoran Motorsports,

Your company kept my $350 deposit when I cancelled a rental reservation that you held for only 5 days.

Now I could understand a $25 fee - MAYBE. But keeping $350?

Someone at your store indicated that, per the notice posted on your web site, you will offer to give me store credit in return for my $350 deposit. To me, that is equivalent to keeping my $350.

Do you really believe that you are entitled to my $350 in exchanged for having performed NO SERVICE?

I want you to know that this policy of keeping this rental deposit does not reflect well upon your company. In effect, this policy communicates to your customers that ethics and good business practices do not apply in the minds of employees at Sonoran Motorcycles. It tells your customers exactly how small you think we are. And it also indicates that your employees are not capable of normal scheduling procedures.

It is unfortunate that your company chooses to make enemies over a paltry $350. My friends, partners, and I will not be doing business with you again.

Regards,

Nelson
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sonoran Motorsports' response to me!

Nelson,

My company did take a deposit from you when you called and reserved your bike. At that time you were told you had 24 hours to cancel. Since you refer to trying to cancel after 5 days I believe it a mute point to explain it any further. What you and a few others neglect to realize is that when you claim a rental bike on your specific days, you take the ability to rent it away when others call in for that same time slot. Question? How much money do you think you cost me for that? Do you care? I doubt it. I run my rental department just like all the others that are within the U.S.A. Do I believe I'm entitled to keeping $350? Yes I do". I do need to ask a question though; you make a comment about my employees not being capable of scheduling. If I understand your comment correctly it was you that called us and chose a date, not the other way around. Maybe you should have done better job researching the times you were able to rent. Taking accountability in everything you do in life will help out the next time you choose to change, make or cancel anything. I think so little of my clients that I give them a $20k+ bike for rentals and charge less than anyone in the state? Your right" I think very little of my customer base. My staff and I will no longer serve you, your friends, partners, or anyone else.

Regards,

Jeff Hal
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
FYI.

I typed the exact letters as they were written, no those are not typos in Jeff's response to me, but despite the errors I still get his point, so I won't nitpick. His business is motorcycles, not English.

But:

- When I reserved the bike with Sonoran, I told them that I actually wanted an enduro bike, but since none were available, I would reserve the street tourer instead, for now. I even advised I may be cancelling. They did not tell me I must cancel within 24 hours, as Jeff claims, but it does say so on their web site.

- When I cancelled this rental I told Sonoran that the enduro bike had become available.

- When I mentioned to Sonoran that "it also indicates that your employees are not capable of normal scheduling procedures" I meant it. If they knew how to schedule, then if someone else had called hoping to rent this bike for the same time period, they ought to have that person's contact information, as a backup. Instead, their policy communicates that it is not worth their time to do this when they can instead charge their "customers." That is what I mean by normal scheduling procedures.

- The total cost for my rental at MC TOURS was under $1200. THat's right, much cheaper than the bike at Sonoran!! So Jeff's claim that he charges less than anyone in the state is not true. In fact of all the rental shops I called, Sonoran was by far the most expensive!



Sorry for the long post here. In my opinion, keeping a $350 deposit is outrageous. But they have the posted policy on their web site, so I have no recourse. My mistake.

Just wanted you guys to see the attitude of this shop.

Just thought you all should know.
 

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If it's not too late take their $350.00 store credit and sell all the crap you don't want or need on Ebay. I know you are in VAbch, but you are going to be out there for the ride, right? At least you might get some of your money back.
 

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Jeff sounds like a horse's arse.

yeah, get the $350 store credit, and throw it up in the classifeds & e-bay.

there's a reason small stores go out of business - BAD SERVICE, and words gets around.

people like Jeff don't seem to equate that
being bad to customer = no customer = no money for my house payment

common decency is not that common anymore.

I had to cuss out a few people today to get something done about a warranty problem with a lawnmower. i hate that, but it's the only way to get thru to people like Jeff sometimes. :(
 

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Road Captain
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diomedes71 said:
A Warning About Sonoran Motorsports in Scottsdale, AZ
.............. To be fair, their small text clearly says they will charge $50 per day reserved in non-refundable deposit (7 day rental * $50 per day = $350).
............
Four days later I received a call from..............
The next day I called Sonoran back to cancel ........
I'm missing something.....so you owe them $250 rather than $350, no? I guess it was too late to dispute the charges.....
 

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I understand your reasoning on the 350 being too high,but.......you say it was stated in the contract that you had 24 hrs to cancel and after that it would be a 50 buck a day fee. So,after five days you cancel....guess I'm missing your point. You rented a bike that you really didn't want in the first place and then when a better deal came along you jumped ship. Now think if 30 or 40 people a year did the same thing? The guy at the shop would lose a ton of income. I can understand his point too. I'd have taken his offer of a store credit and just ebayed the stuff. Just my .02
 

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Lazy 98
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Presumably, this was on your credit card, and presubably, you spend a lot with them, and have few if any other problems. Don't pay. Take 30 minutes out of your day and build a case for fraud or deception. Write a letter to that effect, documenting the fact that you rented by phone and not by website.

Then, let the CC and the store hassle over it. I seriously would just not pay.

F$$%k them all.
 

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Sorry, I have to side with the bike shop on this one. You rented the bike and you state that the policies were clearly stated on the web site. You change your mind and expect them to make an exception for you... unfair on your part.

The Enduro shop is cheaper because an enduro is not a touring bike and would most likely rent for less. I think this is an inaccurate comparison.

Take the credit and go to eBay... it is fools play not to take the money in kind.

Sonaron is rather chicken shlt in not refunding the full amount if the bike rents during your originally scheduled rental period. The fact that it is not worth their time really means they want to receive monies for nothing. This is, of course, beside the point.

You have not been wronged.
 

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diomedes71 said:
Nelson,

My company did take a deposit from you when you called and reserved your bike. At that time you were told you had 24 hours to cancel. Since you refer to trying to cancel after 5 days I believe it a mute point to explain it any further. What you and a few others neglect to realize is that when you claim a rental bike on your specific days, you take the ability to rent it away when others call in for that same time slot. Question? How much money do you think you cost me for that? Do you care? I doubt it. I run my rental department just like all the others that are within the U.S.A. Do I believe I'm entitled to keeping $350? Yes I do". I do need to ask a question though; you make a comment about my employees not being capable of scheduling. If I understand your comment correctly it was you that called us and chose a date, not the other way around. Maybe you should have done better job researching the times you were able to rent. Taking accountability in everything you do in life will help out the next time you choose to change, make or cancel anything. I think so little of my clients that I give them a $20k+ bike for rentals and charge less than anyone in the state? Your right" I think very little of my customer base. My staff and I will no longer serve you, your friends, partners, or anyone else.

Regards,

Jeff Hal
This is one of the worst letters I have seen in awhile. I have been in business for 36 years, and run a fair size organization.

Writing this letter to a customer is disgraceful. If Jeff worked for me and wrote a letter like this to one of our customers, I'd terminate him on the spot.

I have been doing this for a long time and one thing I can tell all of you is that you never win an argument with a customer. In my place, the customer is always right, even when he is wrong. Happy customers tell 1 other prospective customer. Unhappy customers tell 10 other prosepective customers. You do the math.

Jeff chose to square off with the customer and place him on the defensive. Jeff also chose to generate business correspondence without the aid of a spell checker, and that folks is a big loser in my book. Professionals do not mispell or use improper words, i.e. "mute" vis-a-vis moot. Professionals do not scold the customer in the correspondence, i.e., "Maybe you should have done better job researching the times you were able to rent. Taking accountability in everything you do in life will help out the next time you choose to change, make or cancel anything." By sending this message to the customer, how did Jeff get closer to becoming more profitable or paying that bill that just arrived in his mailbox today?

Jeff fails to understand that the man is a customer with money to spend with him, not someone for you to discipline. It is a privilege for Jeff to have the opportunity to serve diomedes71, and regardless of the circumstances, he should have found a way to work with the customer and arrive at a happy resolution.

How sad. That's why some guys make millions in business, some barely eek out a living while others simply go broke.

Jeff just doesn't get it.
 

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Road Captain
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Dog,
I have to agree the letter (content and composition) is poorly written......but is the letter real problem? He offered store credit:

(Actually, he said they would graciously give me $350 of store credit. Their store is in Arizona. I live in Virginia Beach. Not to mention, I don't want to spend $350 in their store. I wanted my deposit back.)

Maybe he does get it.........
 

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Lazy 98
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deucedog said:
This is one of the worst letters I have seen in awhile. I have been in business for 36 years, and run a fair size organization.

Writing this letter to a customer is disgraceful. If Jeff worked for me and wrote a letter like this to one of our customers, I'd terminate him on the spot.

I have been doing this for a long time and one thing I can tell all of you is that you never win an argument with a customer. In my place, the customer is always right, even when he is wrong. Happy customers tell 1 other prospective customer. Unhappy customers tell 10 other prosepective customers. You do the math.

Jeff chose to square off with the customer and place him on the defensive. Jeff also chose to generate business correspondence without the aid of a spell checker, and that folks is a big loser in my book. Professionals do not mispell or use improper words, i.e. "mute" vis-a-vis moot. Professionals do not scold the customer in the correspondence, i.e., "Maybe you should have done better job researching the times you were able to rent. Taking accountability in everything you do in life will help out the next time you choose to change, make or cancel anything." By sending this message to the customer, how did Jeff get closer to becoming more profitable or paying that bill that just arrived in his mailbox today?

Jeff fails to understand that the man is a customer with money to spend with him, not someone for you to discipline. It is a privilege for Jeff to have the opportunity to serve diomedes71, and regardless of the circumstances, he should have found a way to work with the customer and arrive at a happy resolution.

How sad. That's why some guys make millions in business, some barely eek out a living while others simply go broke.

Jeff just doesn't get it.
They could have offered to compromise in some way, rather than just draw a line in the sand. This assumes that you didn't just go off on them right off the bat.

Although I still say f... them, there was a good suggestion to take the merchadise credit and then sell the stuff or keep it. You may actually need supplies while you're down there.
 

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Infidel
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Please call Vengeance Scottsdale to get detailed information about our motorcycle reservation and cancellation policy. We do charge a $50 deposit per BMW Rental per Rental day to reserve a BMW Motorcycle. This deposit is non-refundable, however Vengeance Scottsdale will apply it toward a future Motorcycle Rental or toward any motorcycle apparel, motorcycle helmets, or other accessories; as long as it is cancelled by phone at least 24 hours prior to the Rental Time.

http://www.sonoranmotorcycles.com/rentals.html

Their policy is clearly posted on their website.
 

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Just Like to Ride
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wyodude said:
Please call Vengeance Scottsdale to get detailed information about our motorcycle reservation and cancellation policy. We do charge a $50 deposit per BMW Rental per Rental day to reserve a BMW Motorcycle. This deposit is non-refundable, however Vengeance Scottsdale will apply it toward a future Motorcycle Rental or toward any motorcycle apparel, motorcycle helmets, or other accessories; as long as it is cancelled by phone at least 24 hours prior to the Rental Time.

http://www.sonoranmotorcycles.com/rentals.html

Their policy is clearly posted on their website.
Yep, pretty straight forward and to the point.

But Jeff's letter is very unprofessional. I agree with deucedog on this. For an employee to send out something like this without management looking it over first is a very bad business decision. This employee needs to see what it is like to be unemplyed.
 

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What am I missing here? The guy offered you a $350 store credit. You should have said sure and gone up there and got a bagful of new riding gear or such, whats the big deal, you are gonna be in Az. next month anyway. Instead you just threw away your money.
 

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HOGDOG
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Antonio and others make a good point about the $350 in store credit. I was only commenting on the content of the letter and the presentation. I have no problem with the resolution offered up by Jeff to give diomedes71 the $350in store credit. In fact, based on the comment from Wyodude about the policy clearly stated, Jeff's offer is more than fair and should have been graciously accepted by Diomedes71.

BUT -

When everyone's egos are disrupted, customers get angry and say things they wish they had not said and dealers sometimes write letters that only serve to fuel the fire, so the situation is engulfed in flames.

It is the responsibility of the dealer to diffuse the dispute, and although the $350 store credit was offered (and that was very fair), Jeff undermined his offer with the crappy letter, so everyone loses.

How unfortunate.
 

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deucedog said:
This is one of the worst letters I have seen in awhile. I have been in business for 36 years, and run a fair size organization.

Writing this letter to a customer is disgraceful. If Jeff worked for me and wrote a letter like this to one of our customers, I'd terminate him on the spot.

I have been doing this for a long time and one thing I can tell all of you is that you never win an argument with a customer. In my place, the customer is always right, even when he is wrong. Happy customers tell 1 other prospective customer. Unhappy customers tell 10 other prosepective customers. You do the math.

Jeff chose to square off with the customer and place him on the defensive. Jeff also chose to generate business correspondence without the aid of a spell checker, and that folks is a big loser in my book. Professionals do not mispell or use improper words, i.e. "mute" vis-a-vis moot. Professionals do not scold the customer in the correspondence, i.e., "Maybe you should have done better job researching the times you were able to rent. Taking accountability in everything you do in life will help out the next time you choose to change, make or cancel anything." By sending this message to the customer, how did Jeff get closer to becoming more profitable or paying that bill that just arrived in his mailbox today?

Jeff fails to understand that the man is a customer with money to spend with him, not someone for you to discipline. It is a privilege for Jeff to have the opportunity to serve diomedes71, and regardless of the circumstances, he should have found a way to work with the customer and arrive at a happy resolution.

How sad. That's why some guys make millions in business, some barely eek out a living while others simply go broke.

Jeff just doesn't get it.
Being a small business owner myself I gotta go with Deuce on this one.Gotta?...Aw...Shiit...forgot the spell checker! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

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HOGDOG
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Flafatboy, we'll cut you a break on the forum, it's for fun, not for commercial purposes, at least for me it isn't.

I am a member of about 6 other forums and virtually everyone one of them says not to criticize a member for spelling, so I guess that it's just part of good forum etikette not to beat sumone up for speling incorectly.

Antonio if you decide to go pay ole Jeff a visit, I want to go too! :brows:
 
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