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Has any of you heard of the ridiculous events that may be coming to sport bikers? Here is a couple of the top of my head:

Gone TDY 90 days or more, you need to take another safety class and ride with a mentor to sign you off.

Besides the Basic course, you need to take the Experience course within 18 months of the Basic Course and every two years (?). (This is for Sport bikers and cruisers). (This one doesn't really bother me too much)

Like I said, these are two off the top of my head and there are about a dozen other requirements that Air Mobility Command has put on the table. I'm stationed at an AMC base, but I'm assigned to Air Combat Command. If this goes through, it won't be long before the rest of the Air Force follows suit and it won't be just sport bikers! Did anybody hear of this?

I guess this came from the AMC because the rise of accidents with sport bikers. I think this is a knee jerk reaction to reduce accidents. To reduce the accidents, something needed to be done, but some of what is coming down the pipe is just uneeded.
 

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The military does have that "beatings will continue until morale improves" attitude. I'm a Ca. Air Guardsman (ACC) and was a RiderCoach on a Navy Base up until this last Jan. When I went to my own base, from front gate to parking lot is less than 50 yds, yet still had to wear a vest.

There are very few "Safety" folks that ride that actually have direct input for motorcycle safety issues on most bases. You can tell the ones that do because their local regs are alot more logical and are more inline will DODI 6055.

Unfortunate for most bases the "more is better" attitude usually means alot more stuff a rider has to go through just to be able to ride on base. When I have to ride on to a base I plan my trip so I can do everything I need to do and get out of there. On the good side it's all just time consuming stuff and doesn't really take much more time to do. Rider Courses are fun, you can never get too much practice and they are a couple (or so) days you get to ride on their time. Yes, I do think the bosses are a little over protective at times, but when you're dealing with folks that have just come off a deployment, have never ridden and have a wad of money for that scooter they have been dreaming about for the last 90/120/180/365 days, there's nothing stopping them. So if "Uncle" wants to spend the time/dime to make us all safer, take advantage of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Martin64 said:
Unfortunate for most bases the "more is better" attitude usually means alot more stuff a rider has to go through just to be able to ride on base.

This isn't just to ride onto base. It is just to ride.........PERIOD! There is a long lists that what needed to be done so a rider can just ride, on or off base. Violations of any will result in a Line of Duty determination.
 

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It's nothing new. III Corps. & Ft. Hood was doing the same thing when I was active duty Army there in the late '80's. The good news is not every base is the same. The bad news is when you never get to go to one of the good bases that don't make you wear all that stuff. DODI 6055.4 spells out all the basic stuff. The rest is stuff that was tacked on by your MAJCOM or local base commander and their band of overly protective safety guru's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Martin64 said:
It's nothing new. III Corps. & Ft. Hood was doing the same thing when I was active duty Army there in the late '80's. The good news is not every base is the same. The bad news is when you never get to go to one of the good bases that don't make you wear all that stuff. DODI 6055.4 spells out all the basic stuff. The rest is stuff that was tacked on by your MAJCOM or local base commander and their band of overly protective safety guru's.

Yeah, I understand that. Like you said before, it started from non-riders and "Look What I Did, give me a medal/recommendation" weasels. In todays age, if one command starts something, it won't take long for others to follow.
 

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That's one of the benefits of being a Guardsman. It only applies 2 days a month and 2 weeks per year. I still (mostly) abide by the DODI just out of habit, but I don't have to wear the additional accessories that just seem to attract more idiots toward you (kinda like "Target Fixation").
 

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I noticed when I went to get new decals for my truck on McGuire there was a sign stating if you haven't taken the McGuire AFB safety course you can't renew or get new decals for a motorcycle. The MSF course isn't good on base any more. I guess I won't be getting the decals for my new bike.
 

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At most bases the training is conducted during duty hours with the unit picking up the cost of the course. So, you're getting paid to ride. There are worse fates. {salute(
 

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Skivvy9r said:
At most bases the training is conducted during duty hours with the unit picking up the cost of the course. So, you're getting paid to ride. There are worse fates. {salute(
The Oklahoma Air Guard put me on orders for the course at a local community college and paid for the course.

Joe
 

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mike634 said:
I noticed when I went to get new decals for my truck on McGuire there was a sign stating if you haven't taken the McGuire AFB safety course you can't renew or get new decals for a motorcycle. The MSF course isn't good on base any more. I guess I won't be getting the decals for my new bike.
We have a weird situation going on here. MSF has the contract for Ca. and is the course provider for the military. But for some reason if a person takes the course on a military base, CA. DMV doesn't recognize it and won't waive the rider portion of the test. I'm not sure what the whole story is, but it's an odd situation.
 

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A few years ago, I was out at my nephew's graduation from the AF Academy. They all got their commissions on friday night and graduated on saturday. From what I understand, cadets are not allowed to have motorcycles. On graduation day, there must of been 20 brand new sport bikes parked at the stadum. This was a big no-no. I heard that the higher ups were so pissed off that the were all issued some sort of "official" thing that stays in their record forever.
 

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I will have to see if I can get my unit to put me on orders to take the course. From what the SP told me you have to take the course on board McGuire. I wonder if MSF is giving it.
 

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DLL66,

The AF can't dictate what certificate or license you may need to ride off base. If you have a valid MC endoresment on your state drivers license, they can't tell you that it's invalid w/o taking a base safety class, too. Maybe they can to allow you on base, but not off.

There are rules that must be obeyed on and off base, like the helmet rule. AF says you have to wear one, so screw you if you fall and crack your head because you weren't wearing a helmet; the AF won't take care of you because you chose to disobey that rule. But things like vests, full-fingered gloves, boots above the ankle, full sleeved jackets, it's all on base only. Unless the state also requires these things to travel on the roads, you can go without.

Here at Wright-Patterson (AFMC), base officials are always encouraging riders to take the state safety courses. But the base itself does not issue MC endorsements.
 

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Sorry, but the DOD Safety reg says you have to wear protective gear (helmet, gloves, long sleeves, boots or like(I am not sure wording), eye protection. This is while on active duty. It is not only while on base. Active duty is paid 24/7 so you are on duty if on base or not.

For Guard & Reserve. You don't have to if not being paid, but if you have an accident to or from drill, or when not on duty status, you will not be covered and can be removed from unit if not able to attend UTAs.

I have fought this and lost issue on Andrews AFB. I am full time active duty but in ANG. Sucks, but the DOD reg is what AF and all Services use to make this stick.

Same as mileage when driving TDY. Sgt Snuffy can get 40+ cents amile to drive a crap $8,000 car that gets 50mph. But if I drive my $25,000 Glide and get 40 mph, I still only get about 23 cents a mile because its a motorcycle.
 

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Camera108,

I can't quote the reg, but I'll testify to this: The guard shacks at each entry point on my installation keep a stock of reflective vests for oncoming riders to borrow while on base.

Anyhoo, the original post was about MC endorsement, and the AF does not issue that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Homarr said:
DLL66,

The AF can't dictate what certificate or license you may need to ride off base. If you have a valid MC endoresment on your state drivers license, they can't tell you that it's invalid w/o taking a base safety class, too. Maybe they can to allow you on base, but not off.

There are rules that must be obeyed on and off base, like the helmet rule. AF says you have to wear one, so screw you if you fall and crack your head because you weren't wearing a helmet; the AF won't take care of you because you chose to disobey that rule. But things like vests, full-fingered gloves, boots above the ankle, full sleeved jackets, it's all on base only. Unless the state also requires these things to travel on the roads, you can go without.

Here at Wright-Patterson (AFMC), base officials are always encouraging riders to take the state safety courses. But the base itself does not issue MC endorsements.
I'm telling ya.........the motorcycles nazi's are out!!

I understand that the Bases can be more restrictive on state's laws and current AFI's. Currently Pope AFB policy is to have current Motorcycle endorsement, attend basic course, wear contrasting colors during the daytime, if not wear a reflective belt diagonally across the torso and during night hours, wear a reflective belt diagonally across the torso or wear a reflective vest. Additionally, before I could ride on or off base, my commander was required to give me a motorcycle briefing. This may be an ACC requirement. This is an example of additonal requirements. Like I said before, Pope is an AMC base, but I'm assigned to ACC.


And yes, the Air Force, your command, base, and squadron can dictate what you need to ride off base. Just like seatbelts, the Air Force directs all Air Force personnel that we must wear our seatbelts when operating or riding in a vehicle. If an accident occurs and we are not wearing the required safety equipment, a line of determination investigation occurs and if found at fault, we may be stuck paying our own hospital bills, etc.

The safety officers had a big meeting with all the riders for AMC personnel and briefed them what is coming down. I'm assigned to a tennant unit, which we falls underneath ACC and basically we were hinted that don't be suprised if more commands will follow suit!

I've been riding for quite a while in the Air Force, in other bases and other commands and understand every base is different. I heard of PACAF trying to make the Experience course mandatory and attending the Experience course every two years. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for more training on AF time! At Pope we have to pay for the course up front and get reimbursed later (the course is at Ft. Bragg).

All I asked originally is if anyone that is currently assigned to a AMC base has heard of more restrictions and mandatory training??
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Homarr said:
Anyhoo, the original post was about MC endorsement, and the AF does not issue that.

To make it clear once more, the original post is not about MC endorsement. I know the Air Force does not issue endorsement. But they (Command, base, squadron, etc) can add additional requirements to ride on and off base. Read my last post. I'm asking if anybody from other AMC bases has heard of more additional requirements for their riders to ride!
 

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DLL66 said:
Here is a couple of the top of my head:

Gone TDY 90 days or more, you need to take another safety class and ride with a mentor to sign you off.

Besides the Basic course, you need to take the Experience course within 18 months of the Basic Course and every two years (?). (This is for Sport bikers and cruisers). (This one doesn't really bother me too much)

Like I said, these are two off the top of my head...
DLL66 said:
To make it clear once more, the original post is not about MC endorsement.
Sorry if I misunderstood...
 

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Your right they can't dictate your riding off base

But if everything is not right they will not pay to fix you when you wreck. Same thing as not getting permission to skydive or drive a race car or whatever else they say is to dangerous for you this month.
 

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Looks like every base is jumping at the chance to be safe>>>

But to riding on or off base and authority;
Department of Defense INSTRUCTION NUMBER 6055.4 July 20, 1999
DUSD(ES)
SUBJECT: DoD Traffic Safety Program
2.2. This Instruction applies to the following:
2.2.1. All military personnel at any time, on or off a DoD installation.2.2.2. All DoD civilian personnel in a duty status, on or off a DoD
installation.
2.2.3. All persons in or on a DoD-owned motor vehicle.
2.2.4. All persons at any time on a DoD installation.
E2.1.5.1. Civilian On-Duty Personnel. DoD Civil Service employees
(including Reserve component military Reserve technicians and Reserve technicians,unless in a military duty status);

E3.2.3. Before operation of any motorcycle, personnel shall successfully
complete an approved rider or operator safety course. This training requirement excludes those operating motorcycles with attached sidecars and three-wheel motorcycles.
E3.2.3.1. The safety course must include the following: the appropriate
Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) or Specialty Vehicle Institute of America
(SVIA) or MSF-based State-approved curriculum taught by certified or licensedinstructors; hands-on training; and a performance-based and knowledge-basedevaluation.
E3.2.7.1. The following PPE is mandatory for all persons as listed in
paragraph 2.2. of the Instruction while operating or riding as a passenger on a
motorcycle or ATV.
E3.2.7.1.1. Helmets. Certified to meet Department of Transportation
(DOT) standards properly fastened under the chin. ...
E3.2.7.1.2. Goggles and Face Shields. Impact or shatter resistant
goggles or full-face shield properly attached to helmet. A windshield or eye glasses alone are not proper eye protection.
E3.2.7.1.3. Sturdy Footwear is mandatory. Leather boots or over the
ankle shoes are strongly encouraged.
E3.2.7.1.4. Clothing. Long sleeved shirt or jacket, long trousers, and
full-fingered gloves or mittens designed for use on a motorcycle.
E3.2.7.1.5. Garment Visibility. A brightly colored outer upper garment
during the day and a reflective upper garment during the night. Outer upper garment shall be clearly visible and not covered.

Long read, but this is mandated to all services which can restrict even more or require more but not less.
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