[thomas_l]

Can't speak to the 02s but my 01 Classic and the rental Softails (00 & 01) with EFI I've ridden have all been leg warmers when gridlocked in traffic (southeast US 95 degree days) but nothing that would cause a blister. Mine has no oil cooler and neither did the rentals. About the only driveability issue has been pinging at low rpm <1500 and a grabby clutch (only when real hot). Out on the open road my wife says the ride is much cooler for her when my feet are up on the hiway pegs but that doesn't help in traffic.

I'm with Hippo on this one - it's gonna end up being something weird and more likely a combo of small things than one big problem. It will take a lot of patience on your part and a dealer mechanic who is willing to invest the time to duplicate the condition and make a proper diagnosis. Unfortunately for you, those guys are usually paid flat rate and after a couple of hours have to book some regular work to feed their kids. Good luck!

 

[johnbffb]

The latest report on the hot 2002 twin cam is Harley is buying the bike back in order to test it. They did not like the look of the burns and apparently had no problem with my whole story as to how they came about. Although we did have 11 witnesses. So far they have been quite cooperative. Probably much more so than a car manufacturer.

They felt they could not adequately test it locally and it was unfair to leave me without a bike. I believe its going to become quite a test bed for the alleged twin cam engine heat many have complained about. This is probably going to go the way of the high speed weaving(Harley corrected me and stated that three times a second thing is weaving and not occilations)in that in a couple of years it will become common knowledge there is a problem. Will let you all know how it turns out.

 

[lobo]

I have a 2002 Ultra and have only taken short trips 200 miles or less. It runs a lot warmer than my XL did but nothing like the gentleman that is getting burned. I don't think you would want to ride it with shorts on though.

 

[brwk]

Bet HD smelled a possible lawsuit (not saying you would), and felt that it would be much easier to try and make you happy than try to defend a bike that was made to run hot.
Brian

 

[Kampnnut]

Does anyone make a gage that reads cylinder head temperature? I know small aircraft have a sensor on them that will read the temperature of the engine head.

 

[chiselchst]

I Hope They Do Keep You Informed...

John,
I would imagine that they would not be too generous in the info department after the buy back, fear of an admission of guilt, etc.

I would really like to know what the situation was with the Hot Ultra.

I would also be very curious to get and compare various cylinder, head temp readings, and have a baseline. We have a few laser temp guns at work, and I would be very curious to check temps for comparison purposes.

For an accurate measurement of course, I'd have to find someone to hang off the crash bars and shoot temps at various load vs RPM conditions...LOL Any volunteers?

Please do keep us posted, John!

Mitch

 

[chiselchst]

John...

Are you planning on trying another Ulta, or Harley?

What are your plans?

Mitch

 

[johnbffb]

Hi guys,

Yes I am going to get a 2003 Road Glide. I am married to these things. Have been riding them for 39 years. Bought them when nobody wanted one. I think for a pure touring bike(if you can live with the lesser wind protection)the Road Glide is the most stable of the group. I test rode one about two hundred miles(yes my dealer is that nice)and found it to be much better in turns for my agressive riding style. If it was just me I would probably go with a Dyna but the old lady likes to go from time to time and certainly we should be concerned with our wives comfort. She has put up with me for 33 years to I try to humor her once in a while.

I believe Harley is sincerely concerned about the possibility that this could happen again. I think my bike is the perfect test bed for what they are looking for. It is certainly a whole group of things happening in a specific sequence for the heat to happen. The twin cam engine sheds heat real well but again it has to do this because is produces so much heat. Even my old knuckle with synthetic oil will allow you to put your bare hand on the cylinder head at freeway speeds. I can't hold it there for an hour but you certainly can for 15 or 20 seconds. That means a surface temperature of probably less than 150 degrees. The twin cam valve covers will sizzle when touch by a wet finger like a 375 degree iron would. The original plan was for Harley to come out a another Ultra and use it as a comparison bike. They asked if I would spend a couple of days beating up the two bikes with them and I agreed. Then just yesterday they changed their mind and said the engineers really wanted to get their hands on this thing and test the piss out of it. I really don't care. They have been more than fair and I will hopefully get something with less heat.

Will keep everyone posted

 

[johnbffb]

more on heat

The replacement bike is coming the end of September. Rode to Denver this weekend and the rear valve cover will light a cigarette. The front one is fine. The dealer actually agreed there might be something wrong.

 

[Roadglider]

I have an 01 Roadglide SE and it was runnung about 230 to 250 on a hot (95) day. The book says 230 is normal. I went to the 60 weight oil for the summer and stayed around 230. Dont have an oil cooler yet. Also took off the lowers and the temp was about the same. I was cooled but the bike ran the same. Seems loke the lowers funnel the air direcetly onto the motor better when they are on.

 

[Jimmy Boy Dial]

Re: engine heat

With the dealer saying the bike is fine Harley is flying someone out next week to haul it off and play with it. Still looking for someone with a similiar experience.

Thanks

You found one. The heat gets so bad that it is burning the backs of my legs in traffic that should not affect a Harley of any kind and would not have been a problem for either of my FLSTCs. One of the more interesting results is that it keeps blowing up my Enhanced Sound System. The first time one of the speakers was blown. It only has 1100 miles on it and will be taking it in for the 1K service and have them check out the speakers...again. After some stop and go at Rolling Thunder this weekend the heat started up again and the speakers started crackiling like Rice Krispies. Maybe my legs can't take the heat but niether can the ESS.

 

[johnbffb]

ultra engine heat

Thanks for the latest input. Harley has worked out the problem with my bike in an acceptable manner. I have signed a non-disclosure with them.
The replacement bike is a Road Glide. Actually I noticed the problem with the sound system on mine also. I have installed the rear speakers as well. As I like the fairing lowers and trunks I installed these on the Road Glide. I recored a oil temperature last weekend of 265 degrees in 88 degree weather running up to Evanston Wyoming from Grand Junction Colorado. Can't wait to try this bike on a 105 degree day two up. Will keep all informed. Also we have a number of twin cam motors beginning to fail around here with 15 to 20 K on them. Harley has been fitting a new high flow oil pump to the 2002's under warranty. I am told the 2003's come with them. Quite frankly I am thinking about going back to a Evo.

 

[RLS]

John, what pipes were you running on your bike when it burnt you? I know that a free flowing muffler typically lowers exhaust temps and it gets ride of the heat quicker. I have been wondering about the stock pipes and how they affect exhaust temps. Its 109 degrees outside today in SW Okla. I know on my 91 the modified= punched out= stock pipes seemed to run cooler. I have not noticed the 03 Road Glide with lowers running too hot with the stock muffler. Just a thought. Considering the vance and hines ovals and justifying them, in my sick mind, by reducing engine heat.

 

[johnbffb]

RLS, I was running stock pipes and when the heat started I fitting it with hookers and a free flowing air cleaner. We had the map changed in the fuel injection at Harley. It seems to be a problem with only some of the bikes and also more common with fuel injection. The more miles the bike gets on it the higher the temperatures. I replace the offending Ultra with a road glide and it was running 190 degree oil temp. Now that the bike has a couple of thousand miles on it the temp this last weekend to Evanston was running 268 degrees. While this bike runs higher oil temps than the ultra is has not yet blistered my legs. A good sign. We pretty much tried everything. Checked oil flow, pump alignment, installed a oil cooler and the like. It is my personal opinion that Harley still has significant engine heat in the twin cam in certain models due to the aerodynamics of particular bikes. During the development process they had the design finished and then had to increase fin size. Then they had to add the oil misters to the piston skirts. Suzuki does that on there bikes with great success but also they have an oil cooler the size of a radiator.
Harley would not of added the oil misters if they could get away with not doing it. The reality is they have probably carried the v-twin technology to the limits with the emission requirements they have to meet.

 

[RLS]

Got hotter with more miles? That seems strange as usually temps come down as things wear in. We have some really hot summers here in SW Okla and I have not heard of anyone with that problem. I guess I will get a oil temp guage and see what mine is doing. As a side note - did your Ultra discolor the mufflers when this happened? Most of the twin cams prior to 03 around here have discolored the muffler, either stock or aftermarket.

 

[johnbffb]

The discoloration was extreme on the ultra. Its going to be fun to see what the road glide does when it hits 105 degree here in a few weeks. It takes a long grade at elevation to cause the problem. Run for an hour at full throttle loaded with a climb which will pretty much limit you to 85 or 90. Run any slower in our interstates in this area and you get rear ended by a Wal-Mart truck.

 

[booner]

yea....Walmart sucks.

 

[FifthGear]

It takes a long grade at elevation to cause the problem. Run for an hour at full throttle loaded with a climb which will pretty much limit you to 85 or 90. Run any slower in our interstates in this area and you get rear ended by a Wal-Mart truck.

Wow! I missed this thread when it started because at the time it was started I was riding a dyna. Wide open throttle, loaded, up a grade at 85 or 90 MPH...wow! I just thought I rode hard. I haven't ever babied my bikes .....ran through 800 miles of desert doing 90+ all day long with air temp about 120....no problems. Have had it idling in 100 degree temperatures inching along in traffic jams at rallies all day long. Never experienced such over heating problems with the twin cam or has anyone who rode with me riding a twin cam. I have seen a few evos bite the dust in traffic heat though. Very interesting

 

[RLS]

John, we have high air temps in Ok, Friday it was 112 here and I have not noticed anything that would led me to believe that my road glide was hot like your Ultra and apparently you new Glide. He do not have long grades but have strong headwinds. What kind of fuel milage did it get when it did this. It seems to me that running 85-90 up hill fully loaded at full throttle for long grades just overtaxes the cooling system. Two other questions come to mind. It apparently just affects the rear cylinder and do these things have MAP sensors in them to adjust the A/F ratio, such as cars with FI do?

 

[drifter36]

Hey Guys,
I'm a current metric rider, and I'm shopping for a new machine. I am considering the Ultra but after reading this thread, I have to ask a legitimate question.

Is the name Harley Davidson and the desire to own one so important that you will go out and spend $20k + on a touring machine that burns your legs and overheats in hot weather traffic? The fact that this thread is so popular must tell you that there is a basic problem here. When is HD going to come up with the real fix....liquid cool the engine.

After reading this thread, the Yami Venture is looking real good.

Drifter