V-Twin Forum banner

1 - 20 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Last weekend in fairly hot weather we rode from Grand Junction, Colorado to Salt Lake City. The ride started in the afternoon. I have been riding for 39 years and have had other ultra's but never a twin cam. My wife was burned on her lower leg from the engine heated air quite seriously. She did not realize it was happening. Kinda like falling asleep in the sun until it was to late. My oil temp is in the 250 range. God this thing is hot. Next time I'll ride the knuckle. Also the bike has twice burned my inside thighs. It is totally stock. Harley says the bike is fine. I took off the fairing lowers for the return trip and traveled in early evening and the old lady still got a small additional blister.

I am definitely interested in anyone who has had a similiar experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,300 Posts
The best way to reduce the perceived heat from the bike is to use a 2 into 1 exhaust. The stock headpipes are a heat sink.

Moderately built engines run cooler then stock ones.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
twin cam heat

Thanks for the input. I already had the oil cooler. Also I should add we were properly clothed. It seems that at a sustained speed that keeps up with the flow of traffic and around here its 85(along with the long steep grades)the motor just seems to get hotter and hotter. Harley first told me 235 or so with an oil cooler was okay. Then when we reported 250 with the oil cooler that is suddenly okay. I'm waiting for someone to hit 300 and they will say thats okay. My plugs were way to lean according to Harley when I returned from my trip. But they put a new set in and put ten miles on the bike and declared they were fine. No map has been changed and nothing has been checked. Still looking for someone with a similiar experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
I have a 2000 Ultra 95" and pulled a 450lb popup camper from Iowa to Sturgis and mine didn't feel much hotter than my 97 Standard. But I don't run the lowers till it's in the 60's for highs.
But it does get warmer for the one on the back, but she's never got burnt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
515 Posts
Its sounds like your engine oil temp isn't far off. The TC 88 engine oil pressure should 35 psi at 230 degrees @ 2000 rpm.. according to the book. lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,300 Posts
Don't know what to tell you other then the state of tune of the bike makes a huge difference.

I rode a 99 Road King for over 50K and now a 02 Road Glide for over 10K in Phoenix. It is often over 110F here, distances are long and if you ride under 85 you get run over.

Don't run oil coolers and the bikes never feel like they are running hot unless you have to idle for long periods of time, and even then they cool right back down the instant you start moving.

It actually is of so little concern I haven't even considered a temp gauge. The 02 has a heat management system in the ECM and I'm certain it has never engaged.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
engine heat

This is the guy with the really hot engine. I just talked with a fellow today who is so sick of his twin cam he sold it and is buying a BMW. Harley told him they just run hot and he couldn't stand the heat during our summer days. Said it was the hottest thing he ever owned. I think its in the testing. There may very well be nothing wrong with my bike as far as Harley is concerned however I do have their legal department pretty shook up.

When you run at full throttle riding two up through the desert for 2 plus hours climbing grades or countering a headwind the heat becomes rough. Probably more so with an engine which has the cam timing barely within limits. A valve leak will cause heat along with detonation.

Harley tests these in Arizona but they do not pull something like a small parachut behind them to simulate a headwind or grades. Full horsepower production at 85 mph with full throttle for hours will really get your attention. Also the problem seems to be mostly with the 2002's with their new fuel injection. Whatever the case I for one have definitely had a serious breakdown in the heat management system. With the dealer saying the bike is fine Harley is flying someone out next week to haul it off and play with it. Still looking for someone with a similiar experience.

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,300 Posts
Hippo, what would signal a rider if the heat management system of the ECM did engage?
It kicks in in phases. First it lowers the idle speed, then it richens the fuel mixture and then it starts to cut out injector pulses.

Some time ago we forced a bike into this mode just to see how it felt. The drop in idle is noticeable, then the bike changes sound and eventually it starts to feel like it is missing. When we tried it we used an infrared pyrometer to get an idea as far as when it happened. It seems to start to happen a little over 300F. Keep in mind this is cylinder head temperature and not oil temperature.
You would think this is triggered from the ETS, so it is conceivable that if you have an out of spec ETS the bike will not only have the wrong fuel mixture but could either engage the heat control too soon or fail to engage it.
Strange thing is that as sensitive to codes as these bikes are, a out of spec (as opposed to failed) sensor will not set a code. But it takes only 5 or 10 minutes to check.



With the dealer saying the bike is fine Harley is flying someone out next week to haul it off and play with it
Let us know what they come up with.
 

·
Still Serving...U.S. Army
Joined
·
160 Posts
Re: engine heat

johnbffb said:
With the dealer saying the bike is fine Harley is flying someone out next week to haul it off and play with it. Still looking for someone with a similiar experience.

This is why I so love these forums. Sometimes what seems to be an "oddity" turns out to be a faulty system or malfunction. It just makes everyone more informed. Most of the mods I've made came from ideas or help from these forums.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
I just purchased a 2001 Ultra Classic in July. I ride alot. I have a 75 mile commute for work and I ride for work when I can. We have had a very hot summer in NJ this year. The bike has the 95" upgrade.

I noticed immediately that the bike runs hot. In traffic I saw oil temperatures above 250 deg.F. I installed the HD oil cooler and changed the oil. Now under same conditions the oil temp is around 220 deg.F.

I ride with the lowers on all the time. I do notice at slow speeds the engine heat between the legs, but once the bike is moving even on a 95+ day the temp is fine.

When I bought the bike the air dam below the steering neck was missing. This is piece that looks like a clam shell that forces the air into the front of the engine. I was told that on the Ultra with the lower fairings it actually creates turbulence that restricts the air flow to the engine. [not sure this is true without a wind tunnel test]

Anyway, I've ridden on very hot days in stop-and -go traffic and never felt as though my leg were getting burnt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Hippo -- Question...

...In the case of this overheating situation, assuming everything is OK on the bike, would adding a SE air breather and doing a Stage-1 re-flash make it run cooler, due to a richer mixture?

Mitch
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
engine heat

I am pretty much convinced at this point the problem is with the 2002's. I had a 1999 Road King and a 1999 Classic. Heat was not a problem with these two bikes. High speed wobble was. But thats another topic. My experience with the oil cooler was not the 30 degree difference the one gentleman noted. I need the oil cooler just to survive. The air dam pretty much died with the extra heat from the twin cam. Obviously there is somethig Harley's engineers know they are not sharing with the general public.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
2002 Heat Issues

My dealer tells me that for 2002, HD eliminated the air dam under the front fork to increase air flow. These had been standard on previous year Road Kings. Also, you might try using a synthetic oil, I lowered oil temperatures about 12-15 degress by doing so.

Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
The air dam might have something to do with it. I take that off in the summer too. But thats to keep me cooler, must work for the motor too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,300 Posts
Two schools of thought on that one.
The factory claims removing the air dam helps cool the engine.

There are a lot of people that don't agree. It would seem that removing the air dam reduces the perception of heat as it allows more turbulent air to reach the rider, but the engine itself actually runs a bit cooler with the dam in place.

Hard to say, but I kept the one off my old RoadKing, LOL.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,300 Posts
As far as the mapping, yes, I would say a proper fuel map will help, just like a different exhaust will, but different exhaust means different head pipes.

The stage1 is probably not the answer, you might be better off building your own map.

If you have a bike that runs exceptionally hot like johnb seems to have, if nothing is found by the factory people, you may want to remove the Y pipe and take a look at it. They all have some protrusion in the weld, but if you have one that's worse then usual the rear cylinder will run very hot due to being choked to death. If you now consider the ECM reads engine temp from the front head it isn't all that hard to see how small things compound problems.
Generally you make gains by the cummulative effect of a number of small changes more then by one radical change unless there is a problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
272 Posts
Mine is hotter n' hell in the summer. I run the lowers all the time, but in traffic I've almost had to get off of it due to the heat. I run air wings on the lower fairing, they look kinda funky, but divert air to the hot spots and keep my inner thighs from baking. I think they're on the web under Baker Built products.
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
Top