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110 CVO engines do have a valve train harmonic in the 2300-2700 range. Only way to get rid of it is change the valve springs and change to a cam with more sensible ramps. A side not for the issue from "day one" not the main problem here.
 

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If looking for an exhaust leak, an old school trick is to use cigar smoke in a garage where no wind can disturb it. Blow the smoke through a foot long piece of hose so you don't burn your face. Exhaust leak will disturb a slow thick cloud of smoke. 馃槒
 

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Have you tried to tighten the exhaust flange nuts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I'm confused. First you said the noise started at 80,000 miles and the bike now has 89,000 miles. Then you said the noise started right after a service done at 85,036 miles just a few days ago. Did you ride 4,000 miles in the last few days? Have you really been listening to this noise for 9,000 miles?
my mistake. I misspoke (wrote) the 80,000. I should have posted the actual miles at 85,000.
I owe you specifics: serviced at 85024 on 9/3/21 rode from Tampa to Providence RI and back (one week) 3520miles + 93 miles local. Returned to dealer 9/17/21 with 88617 with tick and intermittent TPMS error rear tire. Now have 89042 (425miles) 9/27/21 (10 days) tick/tap the same, TPMS rear now flat-line 100%
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
If looking for an exhaust leak, an old school trick is to use cigar smoke in a garage where no wind can disturb it. Blow the smoke through a foot long piece of hose so you don't burn your face. Exhaust leak will disturb a slow thick cloud of smoke. 馃槒
Excellent idea! I used to blow cigarette smoke through carburator ports to check if they were obstructed when I rebuilt carbs, back in the dark ages of carburators... I never considered blowing smoke on the outside to see invisible air movements. I'll try that! (even if I don't smoke stogies)
 

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Excellent idea! I used to blow cigarette smoke through carburator ports to check if they were obstructed when I rebuilt carbs, back in the dark ages of carburators... I never considered blowing smoke on the outside to see invisible air movements. I'll try that! (even if I don't smoke stogies)
Reminds me of the old joke about the failed terrorist that got kicked out of his school. He tried to blow up a bus but burned his lips on the tailpipe. Sorry, can't help myself.....
 

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Excellent idea! I used to blow cigarette smoke through carburator ports to check if they were obstructed when I rebuilt carbs, back in the dark ages of carburators... I never considered blowing smoke on the outside to see invisible air movements. I'll try that! (even if I don't smoke stogies)
While you鈥檙e stoking up that stogie, and hopefully having a beer, search out a 1/4鈥 drive ratchet, long extension and shallow 1/2鈥 socket.
See if anything comes to mind what to do with 鈥榚m.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
If looking for an exhaust leak, an old school trick is to use cigar smoke in a garage where no wind can disturb it. Blow the smoke through a foot long piece of hose so you don't burn your face. Exhaust leak will disturb a slow thick cloud of smoke. 馃槒
after trying to tighten the flange nuts, I blew thick pipe smoke through a hose onto both front and rear flanges, but it was inconclusive, partly because the noise is more prevalent under load, which I can't duplicate with my head under or alongside the motor.. Then I used a stethoscope but that didn't help either - since if it is an exhaust leak, a scope won't 'hear' air leakage, only mechanicals. Still scratching my head. I will admit though that after checking the flange bolts, I found one just a tad loose and tightened it. The noise may have changed. yay? fingers crossed.
While you鈥檙e stoking up that stogie, and hopefully having a beer, search out a 1/4鈥 drive ratchet, long extension and shallow 1/2鈥 socket.
See if anything comes to mind what to do with 鈥榚m.
I answered the comment after this one about this. But to share with you since you pointed it out... I went around all 4 nuts and found only one that I could tighten even a little. Maybe a 1/4 turn max. I'm thinking that I should go back and do a re-torque attempt on all, just in case the nuts are stuck, thereby giving me false confidence. I will admit that after I tightened the one (top front flange bolt) the noise seems to have changed slightly. could be promising... Having never pulled the pipes from a Harley, are the gaskets metal or fibrous? Or are there even gaskets?
 

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The gaskets are kind of a greasy feeling fibrous material that crushes into shape when tightened down. There's different opinions on who makes the best. Personally I prefer HD.
 

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I have found the easiest way to check for exhaust leaks is with a Cigarette.. Light a cigarette. Start the engine then take a puff and blow the smoke at a exhaust connection. You will see where your leak is by observing the smoke
 

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after trying to tighten the flange nuts, I blew thick pipe smoke through a hose onto both front and rear flanges, but it was inconclusive, partly because the noise is more prevalent under load, which I can't duplicate with my head under or alongside the motor.. Then I used a stethoscope but that didn't help either - since if it is an exhaust leak, a scope won't 'hear' air leakage, only mechanicals. Still scratching my head. I will admit though that after checking the flange bolts, I found one just a tad loose and tightened it. The noise may have changed. yay? fingers crossed.

I answered the comment after this one about this. But to share with you since you pointed it out... I went around all 4 nuts and found only one that I could tighten even a little. Maybe a 1/4 turn max. I'm thinking that I should go back and do a re-torque attempt on all, just in case the nuts are stuck, thereby giving me false confidence. I will admit that after I tightened the one (top front flange bolt) the noise seems to have changed slightly. could be promising... Having never pulled the pipes from a Harley, are the gaskets metal or fibrous? Or are there even gaskets?
Those nuts can give you fits. Not the easiest to access and if frozen on the stud are a real bitch. Good penetrating oil helps. I've had to use heat on some. Don't get too aggressive with them, if you break a stud you've got a whole new problem. When you get a frozen one to move go easy, back and forth with penetrating oil on the threads until its free.
When you get them off replace with new and use never seize.
The gaskets are fiber metal mix with what feels like graphite coating. They crush to complete the seal. If you get the fasteners to move freely you should be able to tighten enough using existing gaskets to stop the leak. Replace them when you pull the pipe off the bike.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Those nuts can give you fits. Not the easiest to access and if frozen on the stud are a real bitch. Good penetrating oil helps. I've had to use heat on some. Don't get too aggressive with them, if you break a stud you've got a whole new problem. When you get a frozen one to move go easy, back and forth with penetrating oil on the threads until its free.
When you get them off replace with new and use never seize.
The gaskets are fiber metal mix with what feels like graphite coating. They crush to complete the seal. If you get the fasteners to move freely you should be able to tighten enough using existing gaskets to stop the leak. Replace them when you pull the pipe off the bike.
All good advice. I suspected that I was dealing with seized nuts when they didn't budge even a little, except that one. Seafoam is my friend .. again! It's been decades since I had to work on my own stuff, but I've still got my old tools and hopefully, the where with alls to git-ur-done. I'll let you know if that works or not. Could be leaking but if I can't work the flange nuts, I'll never know if they are seated or not.
 

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Those are small studs. Too much torque they'll break. You really don't want that so easy goes it. If you get one that won't move try heating then cooling with a stream of penetrating oil. Repeat 3 or 4 times then try loosening it again.
Sometimes a stud will come out of the head. Replace with new. I use never seize on them also.
Good luck, let us know how it goes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Those nuts can give you fits. Not the easiest to access and if frozen on the stud are a real bitch. Good penetrating oil helps. I've had to use heat on some. Don't get too aggressive with them, if you break a stud you've got a whole new problem. When you get a frozen one to move go easy, back and forth with penetrating oil on the threads until its free.
When you get them off replace with new and use never seize.
The gaskets are fiber metal mix with what feels like graphite coating. They crush to complete the seal. If you get the fasteners to move freely you should be able to tighten enough using existing gaskets to stop the leak. Replace them when you pull the pipe off the bike.
I remember those days where studs were anchored in aluminum - GM Northstar head bolts come to mind. They even made repair kits where we had to drill out a larger hole and insert a steel sleeve. I can appreciate the difficulty these flange bolts will present. Especially the front flange. I don't want to pull my engine, so I'll go real easy and make the motor swim in Seafoam if I have to. Thanks for the heads up!
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
The gaskets are kind of a greasy feeling fibrous material that crushes into shape when tightened down. There's different opinions on who makes the best. Personally I prefer HD.
IF I succeed in removing the nuts without damaging the studs or cylinder heads, I'll probably change them for safety sake. But I'm warned, and fully appreciate the likelihood of running into seized nuts which if not careful, could lead me into pandora's box of hurt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Are you sure it鈥檚 not an exhaust leak?
I checked both pipe flanges and it's definitely not an exhaust leak. The sound is becoming more distinct and now sounding more like a (one) collapsed lifter. The only other thing I've known to cause this sound is a sloppy (worn as in spun) crank/rod bearing. I never ran the motor low on oil, nor abused it by over-revving, but I do have nearly 90,000 miles on the engine. I'm about to go on a 500 mile day ride tomorrow, and pray that I don't grenade the motor along the way. I'll let you know.
 

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Damn...
I keep one thing in mind when chasing down intermittent or otherwise hard to diagnose issues. Something someone told me a long time ago.
If it鈥檚 anything serious it鈥檚 bound to get worse.
Good luck on your ride.
 

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I checked both pipe flanges and it's definitely not an exhaust leak. The sound is becoming more distinct and now sounding more like a (one) collapsed lifter. The only other thing I've known to cause this sound is a sloppy (worn as in spun) crank/rod bearing. I never ran the motor low on oil, nor abused it by over-revving, but I do have nearly 90,000 miles on the engine. I'm about to go on a 500 mile day ride tomorrow, and pray that I don't grenade the motor along the way. I'll let you know.
So, did it roll home or was it riding in a trailer?
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Damn...
I keep one thing in mind when chasing down intermittent or otherwise hard to diagnose issues. Something someone told me a long time ago.
If it鈥檚 anything serious it鈥檚 bound to get worse.
Good luck on your ride.
You're right. Serious things get worse if not corrected. I took my bike over to an authorized S&S service repair shop this morning. The tech listened to the engine, isolated the noise coming from the front cylinder rocker box. He suspects that the brass or bronze bushings the rockers pivot on may be worn causing a change in clearances. He also told me about the OE cam chain tensioner and compression releases as well as the inner cam bearings - all weak areas on the 110 twin cam. So he's ordering a butt-load of parts and then.... we'll see. The good news (if there's any) is that my bottom end is quiet. I'll update this thread once I get my motor fixed, so everyone else can learn what I'm about to.
 
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