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Discussion Starter #1
Discussion On having your scoot tuned

They tune your bike, to what? The way you ride or best performance?

When you look into building your engine, the builder ask how you ride correct?

Should a Tuner guy ask this as well or does not relate to getting the best performance?

If I don't go over 4000rpm, why do you need to tune the bike to handle 5500rpm?

The drag pipe post got me thinking, maybe wrong but I'm thinking and it hurts.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It just got me thinking about the guys who are open throttle all the time verse the other guys.

I'd assume the open throttle guy is a easy tune, your just shooting for the top.

The guy who rides milder, I'm assuming is a pain in the ass to tune?
 

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Make me use my bullet?
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I don't know that one is "easier" to tune, it's just a different goal.

WOT is only one small portion of the map. Most folks want the same thing at 90% throttle.

Do you want to gain fuel economy while cruising?

Do you want to push the ignition timing to the brink of pinging to get the last 0.1 hp?

A little more fuel here and there might help keep running temps down a little.

Then you can get trickier if you have the right tuner (device). My PV can store several different tunes which can be flashed to the ECM in a matter of minutes. I could have different tunes for different conditions. A tune for power for local riding and a tune for long distance days where gas mileage is more important, etc..

Bottom line is you can't just take your bike to someone and say "tune it".

If you do something without having a goal, how do you know when you're finished?
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Seems sluggish or flat at 40-45, maybe it is me

I have the PCV. I'm Familiar with what it's capable of doing with multiple maps and even between each cylinder.

Got a map that does well on it, I believe it feels like it. Had it for a year. My 98 twin seems fine to me but like most things you are just use to it, maybe it can be better. At least around that 40-45, it is where I'm between 4th or going into 5th. , but had some comments towards the fact I should have it tuned in by now?

Think I'm chasing a rabbit now, bare with me on it. But the throttle % is what you use in conjunction of rpm(which I have no gauge) and how much gas to add or take away? If I knew how to take a screen shot, I'd throw a pic up of my map.

So, basic is on throttle add gas, cruise throttle take away gas?

I'd like to learn it a bit more myself but I'm guessing it's not the best to tune off a map only, kinda why you need the bigger tools?

The PC auto tuner intrigues me tho?


Sorry for the babble
 

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Make me use my bullet?
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Seems sluggish or flat at 40-45, maybe it is me

I have the PCV. I'm Familiar with what it's capable of doing with multiple maps and even between each cylinder.

Got a map that does well on it, I believe it feels like it. Had it for a year. My 98 twin seems fine to me but like most things you are just use to it, maybe it can be better. At least around that 40-45, it is where I'm between 4th or going into 5th. , but had some comments towards the fact I should have it tuned in by now?

Think I'm chasing a rabbit now, bare with me on it. But the throttle % is what you use in conjunction of rpm(which I have no gauge) and how much gas to add or take away? If I knew how to take a screen shot, I'd throw a pic up of my map.

So, basic is on throttle add gas, cruise throttle take away gas?

I'd like to learn it a bit more myself but I'm guessing it's not the best to tune off a map only, kinda why you need the bigger tools?

The PC auto tuner intrigues me tho?


Sorry for the babble
I'm not referring to a PCV, I'm talking about PowerVision.

What is the problem at 40-45? Tuning won't really change the rpm range that you have good power. 40-45 is not a "condition" but a speed. Are you cruising, accelerating through, or decelerating through that speed?

If you have a proper "autotuner", you have the tools needed, assuming it uses wideband O2 sensors.

You don't need to have a tachometer if your tuning device has data logging. I don't think anybody has a gauge on their bike to show current throttle position, unless you are using the PV gauges.

You don't "tune off a map", the map is where you make adjustments. The adjustments you make should be based on some data / feedback, whether it be from sensors or a butt dyno.

If you have a "flat spot" somewhere, it could be the cams you're using, or a combination of the cams and CR. It could be a timing issue. It could be a fuel issue. It could be that you should be in a different gear at that moment.

At 40-45, I would typically be in third gear, or cruising at the bottom of fourth. That's on the verge of lugging if you are at 40 in fourth gear and try to accelerate. That may be why it seems sluggish.
 

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I took my Dyna to a 'tuner' early on when I didn't know much. Not that I know that much more now, but I did learn from this guy when to find someone else. I was watching him and he was only concerned with WOT; nothing else. When I would quiz him about anything other than WOT he would come up with a convoluted story about how it would all 'work out' in the end. I didn't know enough at the time to figure out he was full of sh!t. Looking back there was just a lot of things he couldn't explain and I have since learned that if someone explains something to you and you are still confused when you walk away it means one of two things. One, you're stupid and incapable of understanding anything or two, the explainer doesn't know what the fuk they're talking about and is purposely making things sound more complex than they are as a way to disguise their own lack of knowledge. I know I don't fall into the stupid realm.
 

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Hopalong
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A proper tune simply calibrates the ECM to the components installed.

It is very important that the owner and builder decide, together, what the goals and expectations are. I have had quite a few folks ask for "XXX" horsepower, yet couldn't tell me if they've ever hit the rev-limiter, or what RPM they normally shift. I used to put them on the dyno, and have them show me how they rode, while recording the bike- made it easier to show them what their tendencies were, and advise what kind of build might get them what they were looking for.
 

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Shifting to 5th at 40-45, is the prime example of lugging,,, at that speed I'm usually in 3rd,, possibly 4th, if I'm just going to chug along..

Chugging/lugging may sound cool or even feel cool, but you are beating the driveline,with the back and fourth chugg.. chaim slapping, comp sprocket banging
Input from the rider is imperative when tuning,, also being truthful with your tuner about how you ride... the type of bike,, weight, gearing,, riders riding habits,,, how quickly the engine responds to throttle red line etc...
Sometimes I go for a ride with the client he on his bike, me on mine to witness his habits first hand..

Usually on touring bikes,, we lean out the fuel in the 2400-3100 range in 5th at less than w0% throttle... this varies but i'm generalizing here..
I've actually had some nitwit wannabe tuner clients have me tune their bikes,,, open the maps up, later at home,, and change the settings,, once they get it totally f'ed up,, thry claim is just slipped oit of tune....then come back complaining it doesn't run right,?? Are they flipping stupid? I keep their finished maps on file, in my hard drive... duhhhh
 

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Discussion On having your scoot tuned

They tune your bike, to what? The way you ride or best performance?

When you look into building your engine, the builder ask how you ride correct?

Should a Tuner guy ask this as well or does not relate to getting the best performance?

If I don't go over 4000rpm, why do you need to tune the bike to handle 5500rpm?

The drag pipe post got me thinking, maybe wrong but I'm thinking and it hurts.
When you work with a builder you pick components based on how you ride. Building an engine for 6500 RPM's and riding at 3000 all day long will not make you a happy camper. Building a Dyna to haul a trailer and not hauling a trailer again will not make a happy camper. Personally I think many people way over build an engine and then drive it different than the intention of the build. It usually results in again, an unhappy camper. Get the build right first in terms of what you want out of it. Low end Torque, HP whatever.

The Tuners job is to make those parts perform at all areas RPM and load. If the build is poorly designed a tuner can not compensate for that. If it's a good build the tuner should be able to make it run its best at all RPM's and loads regardless of how you ride it.

Tuning for WOT is 2% of the total tune. It's the easiest part. All the partial throttle positions at different loads and RPM is what makes a difference in a build and the way the bike runs.

Take a look at this thread http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/big-boyz-head-porting/116515-96-throttle-wire-street-legal-stage-1-vs-sert-stage-1-vs-sert-tuned.html that I wrote over 10 years ago. Ignore the first post if you want as it was written at a time when we were under scrutiny of our choice of Dyno and method of tuning. Starting with the 2nd post you can see what result you can get with a proper tune.

In the 4th post there is a chart showing the gains we got across the RPM and loads. Look at the amount of tuning for WOT. Then look at all the other areas.

Consider in that tune you are making adjustments for 1500 RPM at 10, 15, 20, 25 and 30 for both front and rear cylinders and then moving on to 1750 RPM at 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 etc. Again front and rear .... then 2000 and so on. When you ride the bike what you perceive as power is really small gains as you transition across the map. It's what gives you a crisper more responsive throttle.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yep appreciate the discussion on this.

It's harder than I think for me to explain how I ride except the obvious 2 up at times. Scott at Hillside did very well drawing out my answers to his questions. best question that got me was what I expected on how to pass on the highway if needed? I'm happy with his work and you guys helped me out putting this back together and she runs. That was a little over a year ago, well maybe 2?

I'll have to find a tuner, the only one by me sucks. Oh great to talk, not a dick and doesn't come across as a dumb a$$ but is not a wrencher as he claimed he is. anyway thats old history learned the hard way. Maybe I have a phobia going to a tuner now?

There is a guy about 4 hours away from me Hillside recommended.

I really like that idea of the PC auto tuner for the PCV, but about 200 more than a custom tune.
 
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