[ViennaHog]

Folks,

need some solid advice from the experienced builders. I have Zippers do a Timken conversion and I am wondering which crank (pre 2003 or 2003-) to use and what exactly do I need to do on either option?
I assume that the only difference is the sprocket side inner race, but I do not know if we need specialty tools here. My indy shop has rebuilt lots of EVOs, Shovels and Pans, but first time to tear down a twinkie entirely.

I am ready to place large order with Zanottis and need to make sure that I order the right crank/parts associated with the crank.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

EDIT: The existing 2003 crank is shot by metal debris that worked its way through the engine. Only heads and cases survived.

 

[newultraclassic]

Folks,

need some solid advice from the experienced builders. I have Zippers do a Timken conversion and I am wondering which crank (pre 2003 or 2003-) to use and what exactly do I need to do on either option?
I assume that the only difference is the sprocket side inner race, but I do not know if we need specialty tools here. My indy shop has rebuilt lots of EVOs, Shovels and Pans, but first time to tear down a twinkie entirely.

I am ready to place large order with Zanottis and need to make sure that I order the right crank/parts associated with the crank.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

EDIT: The existing 2003 crank is shot by metal debris that worked its way through the engine. Only heads and cases survived.

Well, no one responded yet so here goes. I suspect that Zippers could use the late model post 2003 crank. I know of several people who have had this done and they just sent the late model crank and late model cases to Zippers for the changeover.....something like $300 for the work.

Good luck!

 

[MechaGodzilla]

Well, no one responded yet so here goes. I suspect that Zippers could use the late model post 2003 crank. I know of several people who have had this done and they just sent the late model crank and late model cases to Zippers for the changeover.....something like $300 for the work.

Good luck!

There is no "pre" or "post" 03 crankshaft for the B motors. They are all the same. All use same part#: 23912-00A. So use the stock crankshaft part # that came with your bike.

 

[ViennaHog]

There is no "pre" or "post" 03 crankshaft for the B motors. They are all the same. All use same part#: 23912-00A. So use the stock crankshaft part # that came with your bike.

I am not sure. As per parts manual the show a flywheel assembly kit 23912-00A which includes a part# 23971-03. Looking this # up on Zanottis or Hales, it comes back as 'flywheel w/ connecting rods'.
It's a little confusing, so I'll try to locate a 2002 parts book and compare the numbers

thanks

 

[newultraclassic]

There is no "pre" or "post" 03 crankshaft for the B motors. They are all the same. All use same part#: 23912-00A. So use the stock crankshaft part # that came with your bike.

OK. Apparently it was the "A"/Touring motor that changed the flywheel assy. part number and not the "B"/Softail. My 2004 Touring parts book shows P/N 23904-03. Probably somewhat different in the left bearing area.

Thanks.

 

[HIPPO]

For assembly you will need the tool to install the Timkens. No way around that one.
Often while adjusting end play the crank has to be removed once or more times from the left engine case. This typically would require the special tool to press the crank out of the case. If you take a third new Timken (costs close to nothing) or even a old slightly used one and lightly grind the inside diameter so that it is a light slip fit on the sprocket shaft you save a lot of time and the need for the tool. Just use the outer new Timken for final assembly once the end play is set.
You are likely to need an assortment of split spacers to set the end play.

The easiest way with the crank would be a crank with a bare sprocket shaft. The late crank may come from the factory with the inner end play washer and inner race for the roller sprocket shaft bearing installed. These obviously can be pulled off but will require a very thin split bearing separator plus a home made pulling set up to do so. Best to avoid it.

There also is a involved tool to professionally install the outer Timken races in to left case (in this case the modified case, LOL). It can be done without (with experience and a good touch) but it is a good idea to thorughly heat the case in a oven, about 300 - 350F, to facilitate the install of the Timken outer races. There may be snap ring blocks involved, depending on wether it comes installed with the mod ot not.

This is the downside of the Timkens in a home environment, these seemingly simple operations are very critical and best done with all the proper tools. It wouldn't be the first time that someone cracks a case or gets a false endplay reading by winging it without the proper tools.
These however are not strictly TC specific, so if there is a good shop over there that did EVO stuff they should have the tools.

If you have none of this, and send the cases to Zippers for the mod, and have to buy the crank in the US, the easiest way would be to have the crank sent to Zippers, and pay them to install it into the modified cases and set the endplay. The only complication with this is that packaging and shipping would be a bit more complicated.

 

[ViennaHog]

For assembly you will need the tool to install the Timkens. No way around that one.
Often while adjusting end play the crank has to be removed once or more times from the left engine case. This typically would require the special tool to press the crank out of the case. If you take a third new Timken (costs close to nothing) or even a old slightly used one and lightly grind the inside diameter so that it is a light slip fit on the sprocket shaft you save a lot of time and the need for the tool. Just use the outer new Timken for final assembly once the end play is set.
You are likely to need an assortment of split spacers to set the end play.

The easiest way with the crank would be a crank with a bare sprocket shaft. The late crank may come from the factory with the inner end play washer and inner race for the roller sprocket shaft bearing installed. These obviously can be pulled off but will require a very thin split bearing separator plus a home made pulling set up to do so. Best to avoid it.

There also is a involved tool to professionally install the outer Timken races in to left case (in this case the modified case, LOL). It can be done without (with experience and a good touch) but it is a good idea to thorughly heat the case in a oven, about 300 - 350F, to facilitate the install of the Timken outer races. There may be snap ring blocks involved, depending on wether it comes installed with the mod ot not.

This is the downside of the Timkens in a home environment, these seemingly simple operations are very critical and best done with all the proper tools. It wouldn't be the first time that someone cracks a case or gets a false endplay reading by winging it without the proper tools.
These however are not strictly TC specific, so if there is a good shop over there that did EVO stuff they should have the tools.

If you have none of this, and send the cases to Zippers for the mod, and have to buy the crank in the US, the easiest way would be to have the crank sent to Zippers, and pay them to install it into the modified cases and set the endplay. The only complication with this is that packaging and shipping would be a bit more complicated.

Hippo,
that was very helpful. I'll go with the < 2003 crank to avoid any issues with pulling the inner race off on the > 2003 versions. I think we have the proper tools around, they did plenty of EVOs.

Thanks again

 

[JDK20723]

VH,

John from Zipper's here. Your pictures were painful! If you are sending your case to us for the Timken conversion, I would be happy to supply you with a new, factory take-out crankshaft (I have plenty of cranks from new engines we convert to big bore/stroker engines) at 1/2 of new price. If you wish, we can convert the case, install the crank, set the end play, set up the balancers, glue the case and align the rods/deck, and ship it safely back to you-- one-stop shopping, if you wish.

Contact me if you are interested. Thanks, JK

[email protected] 410.579.2828 x145

 

[ViennaHog]

VH,

John from Zipper's here. Your pictures were painful! If you are sending your case to us for the Timken conversion, I would be happy to supply you with a new, factory take-out crankshaft (I have plenty of cranks from new engines we convert to big bore/stroker engines) at 1/2 of new price. If you wish, we can convert the case, install the crank, set the end play, set up the balancers, glue the case and align the rods/deck, and ship it safely back to you-- one-stop shopping, if you wish.

Contact me if you are interested. Thanks, JK

[email protected] 410.579.2828 x145

John, you got mail.

Thanks from Vienna

 

[HIPPO]

That's the best offer you'll ever get.
There also is a number of special tools to set the balancers up properly.
While they all can be done without and/or substituted, it ain't gonna happen with a rookie behind the wrench.

 

[newultraclassic]

That's the best offer you'll ever get.
There also is a number of special tools to set the balancers up properly.
While they all can be done without and/or substituted, it ain't gonna happen with a rookie behind the wrench.

Hi,

That is a great offer from Zippers. So from what I can gather, there is nothing to be done to the right side case, like line boring, eh?

 

[ViennaHog]

Hi,

That is a great offer from Zippers. So from what I can gather, there is nothing to be done to the right side case, like line boring, eh?

They need both cases and the set of screws. I assume the do that to precision-align the two bore holes.

This offer took some guesswork/headaches out of the equation.

 

[vafatboy]

VH,

John from Zipper's here. Your pictures were painful! If you are sending your case to us for the Timken conversion, I would be happy to supply you with a new, factory take-out crankshaft (I have plenty of cranks from new engines we convert to big bore/stroker engines) at 1/2 of new price. If you wish, we can convert the case, install the crank, set the end play, set up the balancers, glue the case and align the rods/deck, and ship it safely back to you-- one-stop shopping, if you wish.

Contact me if you are interested. Thanks, JK

[email protected] 410.579.2828 x145

VH,

With the bad carma of the break down, you get a little good carma from this man's first post.

Good job Zippers.

 

[newultraclassic]

They need both cases and the set of screws. I assume the do that to precision-align the two bore holes.

This offer took some guesswork/headaches out of the equation.

That sounds excellent. I hope this works out for you, Mr. VH.

 

[MechaGodzilla]

Well, I spoke with a "John" at Zippers performance today. I got some conflicting information.

A. They do their conversion for $350 plus shipping.
B. They only want the left side case half.
C. They don't line bore the case for the conversion.
D. They won't set end play(and they stated that its the users responsibility)

Is there more than one "John" that works there?

STD developmnent charges $199 plus shipping, they require both case halves and do line bore the case on the Timken conversion. Plus for an extra $40 they will set endplay, $100 extra and they will assemble the case too. $340 total for conversion,endplay set and assembly is a great deal.

 

[JDK20723]

MG,

A. They do their conversion for $350 plus shipping.
$300 for the machine work, plus the Timken bearing and a new (correct) seal spacer that will be required for re-assembly.

B. They only want the left side case half.
The way we do it, it's the only side we need. Been doing it the same way since late 2002, hundreds of times. No problems that I am aware of, only lots of satisfied customers.

C. They don't line bore the case for the conversion.
Again, not required.

D. They won't set end play(and they stated that its the users responsibility)
Without the crankshaft, how could we? Guess? It's fully explained in the factory manual, and should be an easy job for any experienced technician as every Big Twin from 1955-2002 required it. If you don't have the knowledge or proper tools to do the job, you should pay someone who does.


Is there more than one "John" that works there?
Yes, there are 2. You probably spoke with John Williams in sales. I am John Kitzmiller (JK for short and to avoid the confusion); I listed my phone number with extension and email address previously. I have been here for 21 of Zipper's 25 years. So there's no hat trick or anything else going on, even today (Halloween).........

As for what STD or anyone else charges, it's a free country (for now).

Thanks, JK

 

[MechaGodzilla]

MG,

A. They do their conversion for $350 plus shipping.
$300 for the machine work, plus the Timken bearing and a new (correct) seal spacer that will be required for re-assembly.
$300 for machine work, and $50 for the bearing = $350 plus shipping as I stated.

B. They only want the left side case half.
The way we do it, it's the only side we need. Been doing it the same way since late 2002, hundreds of times. No problems that I am aware of, only lots of satisfied customers.
I have no experience in whats really needed or not needed, but a source I trust (Dan Baisley)and have dealt with in the past, feels that the conversion should be done by a place that line bores the case for the conversion.

C. They don't line bore the case for the conversion.
Again, not required.
Some people may agree, some may not which is what I gather the case is here. I am not a machinist so I can't say either way.

D. They won't set end play(and they stated that its the users responsibility)
Without the crankshaft, how could we? Guess? It's fully explained in the factory manual, and should be an easy job for any experienced technician as every Big Twin from 1955-2002 required it. If you don't have the knowledge or proper tools to do the job, you should pay someone who does.
Thats not I was told, I was told you guys don't do it period whether the crank is sent or not. Conflicting information from your own company.


Is there more than one "John" that works there?
Yes, there are 2. You probably spoke with John Williams in sales. I am John Kitzmiller (JK for short and to avoid the confusion); I listed my phone number with extension and email address previously. I have been here for 21 of Zipper's 25 years. So there's no hat trick or anything else going on, even today (Halloween).........

As for what STD or anyone else charges, it's a free country (for now).
Yes it is, thats why I posted STD's prices and the services they provide for comparison. Their prices are very reasonable which I find is very refreshing in this industry. They have an excellent reputation and many well known performance shops use their services and recommend them. Dan Baisley was nice enough to provide their information to me 2 years back when I needed the conversion done. I have no problem recommending them as well.

Thanks, JK

 

[JDK20723]

"D. They won't set end play(and they stated that its the users responsibility)
Without the crankshaft, how could we? Guess? It's fully explained in the factory manual, and should be an easy job for any experienced technician as every Big Twin from 1955-2002 required it. If you don't have the knowledge or proper tools to do the job, you should pay someone who does.
Thats not I was told, I was told you guys don't do it period whether the crank is sent or not. Conflicting information from your own company."

We don't encourage folks send us their case and crankshaft, mainly because of the difficulty in packing the parts so they arrive safely. A case with the crank on it weighs roughly 65 pounds (add another 20 lbs for a 'B' engine) and is very oddly shaped, with cylinder studs and shafts sticking out, just waiting to poke through an improperly packed lightweight box. I can recite lots of horror stories of good parts turned to junk by rough handling and/or poor packing, and in most cases you may be better off leaving the 40 lb crank out, and having a qualified shop in your area re-install it. But we will do it. And we will pack it for safe arrival the return trip. I think anyone who has used our services can attest to that.

Both of your sources are credible, indeed (Dan is a personal friend). Go where you feel most comfortable. I took the tone of your post negatively; if I was wrong (happens), please accept my apology. Thanks, JK

 

[Brian warren]

Folks,

need some solid advice from the experienced builders. I have Zippers do a Timken conversion and I am wondering which crank (pre 2003 or 2003-) to use and what exactly do I need to do on either option?
I assume that the only difference is the sprocket side inner race, but I do not know if we need specialty tools here. My indy shop has rebuilt lots of EVOs, Shovels and Pans, but first time to tear down a twinkie entirely.

I am ready to place large order with Zanottis and need to make sure that I order the right crank/parts associated with the crank.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

EDIT: The existing 2003 crank is shot by metal debris that worked its way through the engine. Only heads and cases survived.

Go with the S&S crank and upgrade to the 4 3/8” stroke. They have the entire kit for you.

 

[Thermodyne]

I think he made his decision a while ago. Like 15 years ago.

Whats with bringing back all the dead threads?