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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Since FI is the future...let's put our brains together and list the features we'd like to see in a box. Maybe the developers/manufacturers will pick up on some of our wants. My knowledge of performance V-Twins is limited but i'll start the list.

1. Under $500.00
2. True closed loop on both cylinders.
3. Auto Tuning system - No Dyno's no dyno tuners...no wasted time/money.
4. One time purchase - System can re-tune itself if a new cam/heads etc..
are installed for all but the most radical setups. Wide band o2 sensors....
5. Completely replace factory EFI system.
6. USB cable/laptop reading and tuning.
7. Maybe a "performance key" so the FI can hold two maps. One for "normal"
performance settings. The other map to pass smog tests.
You would turn a key to engage a map to pass smog tests (if possible).
8. No dyno tuning needed (kinda goes with item #3)
9. Plugs into factory wiring harnesses, fits into factory ecm box.
10 Real time/running tuning with laptop.
11. Altitude adjustments (probably goes with #3 as well)
12. REAL customer service - Personally I don't mind paying a guy for phone
support for help that is REAL help. A guys got to be paid for his time.
13. Works with easily available software. Say excel spreadsheets for maps,
hyperterminal or some FREE equivilant to communicate with the FI.
14. Self diagnostic....."Your FI is delivering 100% of injector flow but the
engine requires more fuel from xxxxrpm to xxxxrpm....larger injectors are
needed. (Ok thats' a little "Star Trekkie" but why not?

I'm obviously a novice so i'll let the pro's take over the suggestions now. Manufacturers take note. Build what they want and they will come.
 

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That sounds about right, I think the $500 part would be hard to achieve. Just not enough demand. I don't understand why H-D can't have a system just like what you want? Maybe someday it will happen
 

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all is ok but the price. move it up to around $2500 and it will be close. and worth every penny!!
 

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I'll take 1!!!
I don't know why no-one has built the thing yet, Pretty sure the technology is out there. After all the tuner car crowd has similar aftermarket devices I'm pretty sure that have even more cool stuff and are still in that price range....

I think....
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That's what I can't figure out..there is plenty of aftermarket closed loop "real" FI systems out there...why not for motorcycles?
 

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It is the same reason I can go buy a 8 cylinder Chevy 350 crate engine ready to go for $1200 or a 2 cylinder HD for $3500.
 

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springer- said:
It is the same reason I can go buy a 8 cylinder Chevy 350 crate engine ready to go for $1200 or a 2 cylinder HD for $3500.
@gree: So True! This is true for almost all motorcycle parts. Maybe as gas prices go up and more people buy bikes the costs will go down.
 

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Well the DTT TCFI is as about as close as you will get to what you have suggested, especially since the duel wego is due very soon and I will have one as soon as it is.

That said It has been over a year and I am still playing with it. In the right hands like GROCK it is SECOND to NONE.

In my novice hands it is great but I know there is way more there and I am happy with small tweaks here and there.

Customer support, well I wont beat that horse again.

The Palm hook up is nice for live monitoring, and you could have your bud on the back with the laptop reading things, but to flash memory in the ECU the ECU must be turned on and off to take the flash. Don't know anyway around that at all. Hell you can have twenty maps from lean to mean and flash in a matter of minutes from shut down to start up. It is not perfect but in the bike world we are just seeing the FI stuff, and it surely has been adapted from car FI.

We still have a ways to go but I don't think I will live long enough to see a 500.00 price point, hell 2 02's will set you back 190.00 or so.

If I had a do over I would want my carb back just because of this issue of FI, it cost big money to take COMPLETE control of your HD FI. And you do need to understand FI to work the TCFI but to get it running, basic map and self tunning is pretty quick to get going especially with help from this forums search function.

All in all I think the most complete system out there but is not for a novice (like me), unless you have help or FI tunning experience.
 

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XLIII
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Well, I'll just put in a bitch I have w/ the SERT. All the background crap in there that goes on that you can't control and can't even see without doing a data run and disecting it.

For Example:

My bike is being re-tuned this week using some priceless info we got from GRock, and we are using an '05 Stage I Dyna 1550 map as a base. Why, you ask. Your bike has SE heads and a cam and stuff. Well, sports fans, both the Stage II Dyna 1550 maps shut the injectors off until 2k RPM, give or take, and retard the timing during decel. With a good strong, torquey build rolling the throttle back on during decel is flat brutal. Nasty jerk. You wouldn't know why if you didn't see what was happening w/ a data run. The Stage I map actually sounds like a Harley decellerating and doesn't jerk you cross-eyed when you roll the throttle back on. No nasty surge when the injectors kick back in, either, since they never shut down.

/rant
 

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LAF brings up a good point about the TCFI, it really isn't too far off of what you are dreaming about! And the new dual channel really has some nice improvements in the algorythms and is more user friendly. Also, the guys at Daytona Twintec are good at loading up older systems with the newest firmware so that you don't get left in the dust when they develop new improvements. But, like MEGA Stinkeye points out, you really need to know the quirks that EVERY system has to really get the most out of every tune. Lots of times even the manufacturers don't even know the tendencies of their own systems because they build the modules, but don't take the time to test them in the real world.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
springer- said:
It is the same reason I can go buy a 8 cylinder Chevy 350 crate engine ready to go for $1200 or a 2 cylinder HD for $3500.
"True Dat!"

I see that I have undershot the "dream" price. One of the other posts said $2500 and after some thought you know that wouldn't be too bad really. Especially if the FI system tunes itself and can be used with almost any head/cam/Ci setup. When you calculate the cost of having a PCIII or equivilant re-dyno'd and or re-mapped every time you make a little change...$2500 might be pretty reasonable.
 

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Once the ThunderMax Auto-Tune module is released, it won't be too far off the mark either. No "daul maps" but you will be able to adjust the A/F ratio of the loaded map for "economy" or "performance" (read "compliance") quite easily. Is beta testing now, should be available late spring. Price as yet to be determined; you'll need the ThunderMax ECM ($429.95) and the Auto-Tune module (includes Auto-Tune interface module and dual wide-band sensors). The future is here! JK from Zippers
 

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MegaGlide said:
Well, I'll just put in a bitch I have w/ the SERT. All the background crap in there that goes on that you can't control and can't even see without doing a data run and disecting it.

For Example:

My bike is being re-tuned this week using some priceless info we got from GRock, and we are using an '05 Stage I Dyna 1550 map as a base. Why, you ask. Your bike has SE heads and a cam and stuff. Well, sports fans, both the Stage II Dyna 1550 maps shut the injectors off until 2k RPM, give or take, and retard the timing during decel. With a good strong, torquey build rolling the throttle back on during decel is flat brutal. Nasty jerk. You wouldn't know why if you didn't see what was happening w/ a data run. The Stage I map actually sounds like a Harley decellerating and doesn't jerk you cross-eyed when you roll the throttle back on. No nasty surge when the injectors kick back in, either, since they never shut down.

/rant
Mega,
Is this the case for the Stage II Dealer downloads, also?
Or is it just the Stage II MAps in your SERT?
I ask cause I am getting my bike flashed prior to installing the Terminal Velocity II for 06 Dynas.

Regards,
Bry
 

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bporcelli said:
Mega,
Is this the case for the Stage II Dealer downloads, also?
Or is it just the Stage II MAps in your SERT?
I ask cause I am getting my bike flashed prior to installing the Terminal Velocity II for 06 Dynas.

Regards,
Bry
I'll ask today and let you know.
 
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