V-Twin Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,609 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
And we think we have environmental problems here. With 1.3 billion people China has some huge problems that are effecting the rest of the world but especially China.. A few pages to read but really interesting.

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070901faessay86503-p0/elizabeth-c-economy/the-great-leap-backward.html


The Great Leap Backward?
Elizabeth C. Economy
From Foreign Affairs, September/October 2007

Summary: China's environmental woes are mounting, and the country is fast becoming one of the leading polluters in the world. The situation continues to deteriorate because even when Beijing sets ambitious targets to protect the environment, local officials generally ignore them, preferring to concentrate on further advancing economic growth. Really improving the environment in China will require revolutionary bottom-up political and economic reforms.


China's environmental problems are mounting. Water pollution and water scarcity are burdening the economy, rising levels of air pollution are endangering the health of millions of Chinese, and much of the country's land is rapidly turning into desert. China has become a world leader in air and water pollution and land degradation and a top contributor to some of the world's most vexing global environmental problems, such as the illegal timber trade, marine pollution, and climate change. As China's pollution woes increase, so, too, do the risks to its economy, public health, social stability, and international reputation. As Pan Yue, a vice minister of China's State Environmental Protection Administration (SEPA), warned in 2005, "The [economic] miracle will end soon because the environment can no longer keep pace."
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,245 Posts
goats

Source of the fibre
The Cashmere (Kashmir) or goat down is the source of the wool that becomes cashmere fibre for clothing and other textile articles. The goat (Capra hircus Laniger) is a mammal belonging to the subfamily Caprinae of the family Bovidae. The goats produce a double fleece consisting of the fine, soft undercoat or underdown of hair commingled with a straighter and much coarser outer coating of hair called guard hair. In order for the fine under down to be sold and processed further, it must first be de-haired. De-hairing is a mechanical process that separates the coarse hairs from the fine hair and after de-hairing the resulting "cashmere" is ready to be dyed to colour and converted into yarn, fabrics and garments.


Geographic origin
The name is from the contested region of Kashmir. The cashmere products of this area first attracted the attention of Europeans in the early 1800s when India was under the British Raj. The goats reside predominantly in the high plateaus of Asia with the most significant populations being found in India, Pakistan, the northwestern provinces of China (Inner Mongolia, Xinjiang, Gansu, Shanxi, Shaanxi, Qinghai and Tibet), Mongolia and Iran (Kerman and Khorasan provinces).

Many nations in that area rely on cashmere as a luxury product that is exportable for high profit.

Goat hoofs are such that they destroy the ground that grows the grass they feed on, unlike the hoofs of cows and sheep. China is now providing the major source of cashmere. The denuded ground turns to dust and the wind carries it to the American west coast like a dust storm.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,329 Posts
China's biggest problem is COMMUNISM. Communism does not motivate the economic distribution of resources. As a result they will soil their land as well as never gaining control of their economy. They are in the loser's seat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,044 Posts
And still American consumers keep buying Chinese goods (goods? :huh: )
They send us toxic dog food,toothpaste and baby toys,they have to rules to play by so fair trade doesn't exist yet Americans still keep buying.
I'll buy American whenever I can and avoid Chinese products like the plague that they are thank you very much.:thumbsdn:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,064 Posts
Imagine a country wherepeople live in the same little hovel that thier great great grandparents did. Now, they have a chance to make a little money by working for someone that is exporting goods. He may have a bicycle, so now he wants to actually have a door that closes and locks or a window with glass in it. He might also want to build a stable to keep the cow that gives him milk (maybe) and also pulls the plow. This way, he can store feed without it rotting.

To do these things, he needs wood and nails and glass. Oh no, now someone has to harvest a tree for that reason. Why is he acting so uppity? he should be happy to live as well(?) as his forefathers.

That sounds like Mao talking, not Gore. I feel for this guy, but I am still not going to buy chinese products if I can help it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,389 Posts
Y2K said:
And still American consumers keep buying Chinese goods (goods? :huh: )
Were being forced to by greedy Un-American politicians and business owners.
I think I’ll go by an import and bash domestic to help justify my purchase.
Y2K said:
They send us toxic dog food,toothpaste and baby toys,they have to rules to play by so fair trade doesn't exist yet Americans still keep buying.
I'll buy American whenever I can and avoid Chinese products like the plague that they are thank you very much.:thumbsdn:
Mattel has been stricken.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,710 Posts
whos kiddin who

Al Goracal doesn't think it's necessary for developing third world countries to worry about pollution.

They do not have to meet the pollution standards industries here have to comply with.

American companies only want to manufacture cheaper overseas, and do not pass along cheaper prices to the American consumer.

Who's worried, I mean really worried about pollution.

The liberals only use the issue to gain more control over the populace.

China, watch out, they only will compete with mexico(oh brother) to be a more dominant world player.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Struck a nerve

Love this forum...Briefly, we in this USA country are the worst polluters on the planet. In this current graph you see USA and China, China is 50% of our gases. Our population is 301,xxx,xxx china is 1,322,xxx,xxx or roughly 1 billion more people. Actually despite their slow learning curve. They are doing pretty well. Communism with a capitalistic kick. This could be our next big brother!:eek:
I believe China signed the Kyota Treaty in 05-06 to reduce green house gases, USA did not,, Russia did not.:badmood: I blame alot on the Walmart's for primarly "waking the sleeping giant" and do boycott them and always try to buy the alternative to the "Made in China" product.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,609 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
sjnorte said:
Love this forum...Briefly, we in this USA country are the worst polluters on the planet.
I believe China signed the Kyota Treaty in 05-06 to reduce green house gases
Your obsolete graph is dated 2000 and China has surpassed the USA. We are not the worst polluter on the planet...........period. If you can show otherwise please do.

China is exempt from Kyoto because they are an emerging economy.

If you would have read the 7 page article dated Sept/Oct. 07 you might have seen this.

Furthermore, China is already attracting international attention for its rapidly growing contribution to climate change. According to a 2007 report from the Netherlands Environmental Assessment Agency, it has already surpassed the United States as the world's largest contributor of carbon dioxide, a leading greenhouse gas, to the atmosphere. Unless China rethinks its use of various sources of energy and adopts cutting-edge environmentally friendly technologies, warned Fatih Birol, the chief economist of the International Energy Agency, last April, in 25 years China will emit twice as much carbon dioxide as all the countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development combined.

The coal that has powered China's economic growth, for example, is also choking its people. Coal provides about 70 percent of China's energy needs: the country consumed some 2.4 billion tons in 2006 -- more than the United States, Japan, and the United Kingdom combined. In 2000, China anticipated doubling its coal consumption by 2020; it is now expected to have done so by the end of this year. Consumption in China is huge partly because it is inefficient: as one Chinese official told Der Spiegel in early 2006, "To produce goods worth $10,000 we need seven times the resources used by Japan, almost six times the resources used by the U.S. and -- a particular source of embarrassment -- almost three times the resources used by India."


I already read the book...................you read the article. :harhar:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,064 Posts
We are a cause of of this by buying products from factories that have no pollution control. China is an "emerging economy" and is buildingplants with old standards. We will never be able to compete unless there is a level playing field. if we cared, we would only accept products for import from companies that have been screened for employee safety and pollution controls. This new China is going to be hip deep in pollution in 20 years. The main problem is that thier pollution is affecting us.
Since they are a communist country, we should address any problems with imported product with their goverment, and just write off any bad product against any new product that we import. This would get them in compliance real quick.
 

·
EASY DOES IT
Joined
·
8,914 Posts
In actuality we are likely the largest contributor still if you take into account the fact that we sell China a huge amount of the raw materials that they require for industry and when it becomes more profitable to ship ALL our resources there we will have difficulty affording or finding what we need here...the big corporations would sell our soul if they could figure out how to harvest it. The exception to that rule is that we are still the largest consumer and thereby we contribute further by creating a market for China to feed...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,710 Posts
swmnkdinthervr said:
In actuality we are likely the largest contributor still if you take into account the fact that we sell China a huge amount of the raw materials that they require for industry

So swim....rvr, if we don't send, sell our 'RECYCLED' material?

How are we to continue trying to do the right thing by RECYCLING???





#1 fact, china can and should build factories that are "clean"



#2 if you want to think globaly and act locally,


STOP BEING A CONSUMER and USE LESS of EVERTHING:nunu: :nunu:
 

·
EASY DOES IT
Joined
·
8,914 Posts
knuckleheader said:
So swim....rvr, if we don't send, sell our 'RECYCLED' material?

How are we to continue trying to do the right thing by RECYCLING???





#1 fact, china can and should build factories that are "clean"



#2 if you want to think globaly and act locally,


STOP BEING A CONSUMER and USE LESS of EVERTHING:nunu: :nunu:
The point is (the whole post not just part of it) that by both creating the market and supplying the raw product we contribute to China's ability or willingness to pollute...everyone here is so quick to point out bio fuels have a larger footprint than they save or if someone offers support for a greener lifestyle several jump the person comparing that lifestyle to how it should work in a perfect world...well now I'm making the same comparison...WE drive the market, hence the production and we even supply the materials...we contribute to China's and thereby the worlds pollution. Now China doesn't have to fill the niche...so we'd just go elsewhere for our consumer products...think they'll do it any cleaner?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
UPdated

Everything everybody says here is very true. I stand corrected about the 2000 chart and actually the update is very disappointing of the accelerated rate of pollution in China, just in the short time from yr 2000 And according to the Christian Monitorhttp://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0628/p12s01-wogi.html
the polluters in China are high consumable products of the USA all based on the greed. Quoting CM "Companies that are polluting in China are owned by American, European, Japanese [firms], and others. They are benefiting from the cheap labor, from the resources, and at the same time accusing China of pollution." nunu: sj
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,044 Posts
swmnkdinthervr said:
In actuality we are likely the largest contributor still if you take into account the fact that we sell China a huge amount of the raw materials that they require for industry and when it becomes more profitable to ship ALL our resources there we will have difficulty affording or finding what we need here..
It's already happening,here in the Pacific NW export logging has destroyed the lumber and plywood industry as they can't get the logs they need at a price they can make a profit at so they close up.
Once there were many plywood mills along the Columbia river now there are none.
90% of the lumber mills here are gone as well.
I think there should be a law against shipping our raw natural resources over seas,they should remain here and only finished products should be exported if anything.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,609 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
sjnorte............good post.

So I guess the answer is to let China off the hook because they want what we have. Or maybe it is to not do business with them and let them go back to the stone age.. Regardless they want what we have in this country and they want it there and they want it as fast as they can get it.

The article I first posted says China has good intentions and some good laws but they are not enforcing. Is that our fault that they are polluting their rivers to the extreme, using their water up so now whole cities are sinking, pumping raw sewage into rivers that flow into the ocean.

And Kyoto........even though they are wreaking havoc they do not need to comply.

We as a nation cannot make them adhere to good environmental policy if they do not do it themselves. The world needs to hook everyone up that pollutes not just a select few. China has it’s own corporate world and is racing into their own industrial revolution and they want their piece of the pie.

Thursday, 17 February, 2005, 10:07 GMT.........this is two years old so it is worse yet.

China emerges as global consumer

China has "eclipsed" the US as a consumer nation

With a booming economy and 1.3bn people, it is now the world's largest consumer of grain, meat, coal and steel, said the Earth Policy Institute.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4272577.stm

Take a guess what percentage of China’s population are considered consumers........ a little over 20% so that means roughly 70 something percent to go. Not every nation can have what we have so I guess that means some have a lot and some have not to much................or we just spread it out.......................like that is going to happen.

China and for that matter India has to take responsibility. I say we bring all manufacturing back home and then help out as we can.
 

·
EASY DOES IT
Joined
·
8,914 Posts
dtroll said:
China and for that matter India has to take responsibility. I say we bring all manufacturing back home and then help out as we can.
If we brought the manufacturing back home and supplied China with the finished goods we'd control our destiny...and most of the raw materials in the world.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,245 Posts
swmnkdinthervr said:
If we brought the manufacturing back home and supplied China with the finished goods we'd control our destiny...and most of the raw materials in the world.
well, that's quite the problem. If Americans make the product it costs too much and poorer countries can't afford to buy it. For that matter, shipping steel to Japan, they make the product and ship it back to us, costs less than making the product here. Maybe if CEO's made only 40 times the average worker salary instead of 400 times the average the products might be more reasonably priced.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top