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Discussion Starter #1
When Harley decided to update the Twin Cam with the M8, this is what they should have built.

Still a V-Twin, but with staggered rods.
One piece crank with pressurized oiling.
Stand alone oil pump, as opposed to the Vega style pump Delphi hooked the MoCo on.
Still 4 valves per cylinder, but with an adjuster already installed. As opposed to paying for new rocker arms when it needs adjusting.
Replaceable tappet blocks.
CVO level power from the base motor.
No chains, anywhere.
750 watts of electrical power.

https://youtu.be/OFLpaJUFThc

Rework the pushrod tubes and recast the left case half to accept a Harley style primary cover and it could pass for a Harley motor.
 

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Rework the pushrod tubes and recast the left case half to accept a Harley style primary cover and it could pass for a Harley motor.
Actually, I like the single piece engine/primary/trans design. Less places for oil to leak and stronger.

Sent from my 2 Tin Cans With A String using Tapatalk
 

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One of these days they might have 4 cylinders in the vtwin look with a radiator between the down tubes like a Vulcan. I realize they didn't want to copy the Jip bikes, but having the radiators hanging on the highway bar is not smart imo. Now back to twinkies.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'm pretty sure the next motor is a wet Vtwin. In the 1000-1200cc range. To replace the EVO Sporty motor and compete with Indian. I would think that it's too far along to just drop it now, short of another financial event.

They already did a couple of wet V4s. back when. The NOVA had the radiator in the saddle bag. The GP motor had the rads in the fairing.

With the interest rates rising, Harley is going to get cash poor pretty fast. Sales are way off and will get worse as the interest rates increase the payments. I recently heard about 84 months worth of payments being offered. So.....I think it will put the brakes on their 100 new bikes plans. That money might be better spend building something other than scooters. The rich Harley riders have aged into Golf Carts and Mobility Scooters. Might make more sense to keep feeding off the same folks who used to buy all the scooters. Diversify with some acquisitions off shore, then sell the stuff to the geriatric fan base.

Think about it, more and more old guys are done buying new scooter each year. And the generation behind them has a lot less disposable cash. Lets say a middle aged guy goes to buy that bagger. The one that's going to compensate for not being 25 anymore. So all in that FLTxxx is 29K plus tax. He puts $5K down and takes the 7 year bend over. His 700ish FICO gets him a 9% loan. The $26900 price tag on that 900 lbs of babe magnet just cost him $40,000 when its all done the better part of a decade later. That's not going to help sales. The MoCo could decide to carry the notes in house at a lower rate, but that just eats up cash if the rates continue to rise. And sticks them with the repops. Also, those rising rates are going to impact ARM's, further reducing the pool of people able to drop over $25K on toys. I wouldn't look for the MoCo to keep feeding a lot of new stuff into the market if money gets tight. And it looks like the Fed intends to tighten it up more than a little. Prolly have a ways to go yet, just to resell the bonds China is not rolling over. Not that we should have ever let them buy in so deep to begin with.
 

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When Harley decided to update the Twin Cam with the M8, this is what they should have built.

Still a V-Twin, but with staggered rods.
One piece crank with pressurized oiling.
Stand alone oil pump, as opposed to the Vega style pump Delphi hooked the MoCo on.
Still 4 valves per cylinder, but with an adjuster already installed. As opposed to paying for new rocker arms when it needs adjusting.
Replaceable tappet blocks.
CVO level power from the base motor.
No chains, anywhere.
750 watts of electrical power.

https://youtu.be/OFLpaJUFThc

Rework the pushrod tubes and recast the left case half to accept a Harley style primary cover and it could pass for a Harley motor.
Think you nailed it. HD seems to have little interest in making a truly good product. More interested in hanging on every tech doo-dad they can find and charging a premium while tying buyers to the dealer for service.

Lots to like with that Yammie motor.
 

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When Harley decided to update the Twin Cam with the M8, this is what they should have built.

Still a V-Twin, but with staggered rods.
One piece crank with pressurized oiling.
Stand alone oil pump, as opposed to the Vega style pump Delphi hooked the MoCo on.
Still 4 valves per cylinder, but with an adjuster already installed. As opposed to paying for new rocker arms when it needs adjusting.
Replaceable tappet blocks.
CVO level power from the base motor.
No Chains, Anywhere.
750 watts of electrical power.


https://youtu.be/OFLpaJUFThc

Rework the pushrod tubes and recast the left case half to accept a Harley style primary cover and it could pass for a Harley motor.

Sounds Good to me ..
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Think you nailed it. HD seems to have little interest in making a truly good product. More interested in hanging on every tech doo-dad they can find and charging a premium while tying buyers to the dealer for service.

Lots to like with that Yammie motor.
I think there is interest there, but like the rest of the US automotive industry, they are trapped in a dividend driven production model.

Money that should be reinvested into product innovation and reliability is being used to prop up the dividend and share price. And that leads to the downward cycle of every new part having to be less expensive to produce than the one it replaces.
 

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The late 90s 1600 to the newest gen yamaha vtwins seem awesome. Ive ridden a couple and the warrior is a badass bike. But i think they have it all figured out. (I still say they should have stuck the 200hp v4 vmax engine in the newest tourer though...)

As far as harleys go, ill stick to the old junk nobody wants anymore. Im into my e-glide for like 3k after i rebuilt all the janky stuff.

30k for a motorcycle seems astronomical to me.
 

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I like the 88 so good that I bought another. Maybe some day I will up the motor some, but it is no rush. If I do I know who I will take it to with a blank check.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I like the 88 so good that I bought another. Maybe some day I will up the motor some, but it is no rush. If I do I know who I will take it to with a blank check.
No idea why you would actually like the 88. It was a step backwards from the 80 it replaced. The 88 was cheaper to build, and used more Delphi sourced autoparts, but it really had only a few improvments. Beter oil sealing at the jug base and rocker boxes being about it.
 

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No idea why you would actually like the 88. It was a step backwards from the 80 it replaced. The 88 was cheaper to build, and used more Delphi sourced autoparts, but it really had only a few improvments. Beter oil sealing at the jug base and rocker boxes being about it.
You rained on my parade. The one I had didn't give me any trouble other than the cam sensor. I would be in traffic at the beach and I see bikers lifting their leg from the heat. Once in awhile I get that heat, but not much. I will ride this one for now and if I feel I need more hp then I will get one with the 107.
 

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If you like the scooter, but feel the need for more power, just drop a 111 in place of that 88.
I haven't ridden it enough to judge the RK. It is going in the shop next week for the Burly clutch kit and that frame strengthener you suggested. Then I will hit the road more often.
 
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