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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Well, I finally did it! I installed the Terry Components Terminal Velocity II closed loop system on my 01 Road Glide w/headwork/tw37/propipe/bored magnetti-marelli TB. I previously had a PCIII that I had spent about $400 in dyno time and it still wasn't right. So, I took a chance on the TVII cuz I hate dyno guys probably cuz I've had problems finding one who really knows what they are doing. Every time I lay out the cash and ride home with a bike that runs worse than when I took it in......
The TVII install was pretty straight forward although soldering the connections is in pretty tight quarters and somewhat of a challenge. I only had to call Terry 4 times, they have a real person answer the phone and it's either Keith Terry or Jim that help and they are both great and will take whatever time necessary to get you through whatever problem you are having. For my build, I used a stage two HD download to the stock ECM. I picked up a complete ECM from Ebay that already had the stage 2 download in it for $50 so that was a good deal and kept me out of the dealer's service dept which is always a plus! My ECM had a stage 1 download and keith thought it might not be enough but for my build, since I had the stage 2 available, he recomended I use that one. I installed the o2 sensor about 4-5 inches from the rear exhaust port, above the trans and in front of the starter. With the ProPipe, there's alot room for it there and Keith Terry advised me that there was no problem installing it that close to the port and that was actually a good thing....
The bike runs great, I got out for a 70 mile ride on all the roads that I ride on a day to day basis, these are mostly windey country roads that I know very well. The first thing I noticed after a few miles is that the low end throttle response is quicker and much smoother. I pushed it pretty good today and can say it performed well, smooth, no popping even on hard decel, never a hint of hesitation. Seemed much stronger from 2800 to 4500(where I do 90% od my riding), and maybe just a tick slower on the WOT from 4700-5500, I didn't go further than 5500. Still great acceleration throughout the rpm range and the pluses in the lower ranges more than make up for the miniscule loss on the top. In different terms, I can get from 60 to 95 way quicker than before but just a tick slower from 95-110+.... as if that matters in the real world!!
I am still having cold idle issues but at least I'm not fuel fouling plugs at cold idle any more like I was with that $300 custom map! I do still have a couple of things to look at on my TB for that issue but it's no big deal.

Fuel Milage... Since my build, and that now infamous dyno tune, I have been getting between 23 and 26 MPG. The past few days before the TVII install I ran a couple of tanks of gas riding REAL EASY just to see how good a maliage I could possibly get, I hated riding like this, just not my style. I ran a tank on sunday and got exactly 30MPG, monday riding two up and riding real easy, I got 29, much of this was hiway riding at 65-75mph! Today, I started with a full tank with 4 miles on it, I rode just as hard as I have ever ridden it, twisting the wick as hard and as often as I could. When I stopped at the gas station before coming home, my trip meter was at 67 miles, I put in exactly 2.02 gallons and that was as full as I could get it! That's 33mpg, about the same as I was getting before the build and I was really pushing her hard! so I can easily imagine 40mpg or close to it, something I have never experienced!

Plug check. I put in a new set of plugs before I left today and they look good on the check when I got home, still a little dark but just slightly. Nothing like the sooty or even fuel wet ones I was finding before. also cleaned the tip of tailpipe before the ride, this has always been black since the build and dyno with PCIII. Well when I got home today, it's still [email protected]

Overall, I am happy. I am very hard to please, not the kind of customer you want unless you are very good at what you do. I will keep the TVII, I would recomend it to anyone with a mild to moderate build espacially considering the alternatives that all require dyno time......
 

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Dog is my copilot
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Adlerx,

Funny... I was just about to post over in the efi forum to ask you the results! Thanks for the detailed update. My plan is to add the TVII, the Rinehart 2-1, and a SE air filter kit. I should have everything on order after tomorrow. Glad to hear it's working out for you.

Gibby
 

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Encouraging report. Keep us posted as you have a chance to wring it out.

YB
 

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good post adlerx as I'm looking at closed sytems myself. Thanks for all the good info.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This report is by no means a final judgement, I gotta get alot more miles on her first but perliminary results are good and if I can stay away from the $100/hr dyno bozos, nothing would make me happier!!
 

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Adlerx
As soon as i get my heads from Steve i'm going to do my 98, 37g build. I have the stock stage 1 ecm and was wondering with the TVll if thats enough.
Would it be a problem to plug the original ecm in and see how it runs, or is there more to it than that?
 

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mori55 said:
Adlerx
As soon as i get my heads from Steve i'm going to do my 98, 37g build. I have the stock stage 1 ecm and was wondering with the TVll if thats enough.
Would it be a problem to plug the original ecm in and see how it runs, or is there more to it than that?
I'm going to step in here Mori,
First; of all the information you gave is a little sketchy.
What did you mean by plugging in the original ECM ?
Secondly; with that build I am almost sure you would need a Stage II download, About $150.00 from the Dealer. Even if you weren't going to use the Terry.

Do the build
Get the StageII
Install the Terry
Ride on :chopper:
 

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00ultra said:
I'm going to step in here Mori,
First; of all the information you gave is a little sketchy.
What did you mean by plugging in the original ECM ?
Secondly; with that build I am almost sure you would need a Stage II download, About $150.00 from the Dealer. Even if you weren't going to use the Terry.

Do the build
Get the StageII
Install the Terry
Ride on :chopper:
I thought he said he bought a complete stage ll ecm? If the stage ll adds just adds fuel maybe the terry will compensate for it.
I already have a stage l and i think that moves the revlimiter up.
 

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mori55 said:
I thought he said he bought a complete stage ll ecm? If the stage ll adds just adds fuel maybe the terry will compensate for it.
I already have a stage l and i think that moves the revlimiter up.
Call Keith Terry and ask him what he thinks.....
I'm pretty sure with your build he will tell you that in order to get the optimum performance with the 98" and cams you will need to go with the StageII download. It's just a reflash to your ecm. That's just my-2$en#e-
I am by no means an expert in this field.
 

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Adlerx bought a used ECM off of e-bay, with stage 2 download already in it, for $50.00. That negated the need to do a download to his orignal ECM, which would have cost him $150.00 plus. I agree with 00ultra on the stage 2 download. It is always easier to lean out, than to richen em up and easier on the motor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
OK, let me see if I can straighten this out...
Yes, I did buy a complete ECM that already had the stage 2 download installed. I am always looking to save $$ and to build up my spare parts inventory. I assumed I would need the stage 2 for the build to get close enough for the terry to do it's magic. The download is $150 and you gotta go to the dealer to get it! When I spotted this one on ebay which already had the download installed for less than $50, I jumped on it. So, I ended up with the download I needed and got a spare ECM (my old one)out of the deal to boot!
As far as "plugging in" the ECM with the stage 1 download(my original one) to see if it's enough, The weather isn't cooperating very well for that and I got alot more riding to do with it the way it is to get real familiar with all the characteristics and nuances of what I have. My Dyno is in my ass and I like to confirm what it feels over some period of time rather than base a complete opinion on one short ride. All that said, once the weather turns a little nicer, I do have every intention of putting my original ECM, with the stage 1 download, back into my bike and riding it enough to determine that it either IS or IS NOT enough to make the TVII work on my build.
If I were you Mori, I would go ahead and install the TV with your current stage 1 download and just ride it, see how it does. I doubt it will be enough and you may be unhappy with your performance at that point but don't get too frustrated, just go to the dealer and have em install a stage 2 download and I'm guessing you'll be fine!
So, I will be doing the comparison you mentioned but probably not in time to provide you info before you do your build. I doubt the stage 1 will be enough for your build especially since you probably have the 1450 stage1 as opposed to the 1550 stage1. Also, in my comparison I will be comparing the stage2 with my original stage1 which is a 1550 stage1 as opposed to the 1450 stage1 that most people have. Then you have to remember that I have the older Magnetti-Marelli EFI which may or may not make a difference for comparisons sake...

There, have I totally confused the question again?


What was the question????
 

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I was courious about if it would work or not. About a month a go when i talked to Terry even he wasn't sure if i needed the stage ll, but he thought i probaly would.
I'm like you why pay the dealer if you don't have to.
 

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Addicted to American Iron
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I have a PCIII for my Ultra build and was going to use it but the more I read the more I like the TVII and as I already have a stage II download in my ECM that is all the better. You mentioned that the cost was $400 but what exactly came in your kit as I am looking at them on Ebay. My new build is a 98ci/ street ported 2005 heads off ebay/ custom cam based off HQ0039.
 

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Dog is my copilot
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Dave,

Go to www.directparts.com and call them. You can get a TVII for around 407 with free shipping (cheaper than I saw on ebay, but it is on backorder).

Gibby
 

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I hope my gut feeling is wrong on this product.
It measures AFR on one cylinder and then corrects by tricking a sensor value to the ECU. That leaves the other cylinder being corrected based on the values where the sensor is. I have news for you all depending on the model, build and pipes the cylinders do not always match AFRs that close. So this device gets the bike down the road but timing is not addressed nor is any cylinder matched tuning. So not too bad, in other words no critical issues but not the fine tuned razor edge most people think they bought. Dyno runs would back up my suspicions.
 

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nw_guy4_fun said:
I hope my gut feeling is wrong on this product.
It measures AFR on one cylinder and then corrects by tricking a sensor value to the ECU. That leaves the other cylinder being corrected based on the values where the sensor is. I have news for you all depending on the model, build and pipes the cylinders do not always match AFRs that close. So this device gets the bike down the road but timing is not addressed nor is any cylinder matched tuning. So not too bad, in other words no critical issues but not the fine tuned razor edge most people think they bought. Dyno runs would back up my suspicions.
I have a pick-up truck that runs 4 cylinders off of one sensor. The TVII adjusts only the fuel. That is why depending on your build you MIGHT need the Stage I or II download. The idea behind it is if you do need a download all you have to do after it is drive it down the road instead of running it on a dyno for 8+ hours over 3 months to get the air fuel ratio close.

Of course one could go and purchase a DTT with the new dual sensors. But then you would still need to use a dyno for several hours to make sure you have the timing advance done right and have set the fuel setting correctly. The other fun part is finding a tuner that know how to tune the DTT in case you don't know how to or happen to own a dyno.

Then there is the SERT. That has to be done on a dyno.
PCIII needs a dyno and still most times it isn't right from what I read on these pages. Not to mention a few have had the PCIII burn up their ECM.

Right now the TVII is the best there is in this price range.
 

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I stand with my opinion but would change that in a heart beat as soon as we get some of these on dynos and see what the results are, especially with some back to back checks. This is not a trained device from the way it was explained to me by a very knowlegable person. It works in real time unlike full blown BLM in automotive ECUs. Right now I just view the device as an add-on to a bike already tuned for good power and driveability and this device just a smart DFO. So we will see.
 

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I'll tell ya I think FI bikes suck personally that is until you get them dialed in after an engine build which it seems most of us do. Not all but alot. I am running a DOBECK DFO with great success. Nixed a PCIII usb when it would take about another 400 bucks to get it right. Sometimes to me simpler is better. Granted the DFO doesn't monitor every fuel position/cell but the thing is load based so it knows when riding 2 up and when to add more fuel etc. etc. Was kind of tricky to get it dialed in just to where I wanted it but not real bad. You can even set your idle rpm's with it to really fine tune it. I can increase gas mileage on the open road even more by turning the green and yellow pots back a bit. Plugs are light brown, no back firing issues and a happy camper am I. keepem sharp
 

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My whole attitude would change if the device worked on the cylinders seperatley with two sensors. From my lamen seat I guess that is not possible with a Magnetti and perhaps with the Delphi ECU.
 
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