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Discussion Starter #1
Gents,

Seem to have a problem with my motor, see specs in my signature file.

Longer story:

Service at 20000 miles with oil change (Belray full synthetic)
At 22,000 miles I went on a Alp mountains trip with my wife, bike heavy loaded, lots of steep hills with lots of motor braking to save the front brake
Oil registered before the trip between ½ and ¾ full, after the trip about 800 miles oil did not register on the stick, put in about 1 quart to the full mark now.
Never needed to top off between oil changes (5000 miles interval)
Bike does not run very well after this trip.

Issues:
• No real power gain beyond 4000 rpm
• Oil gets real hot, reads up to 230 F at low outside temps (around 50 F),
• After about only 5 miles city riding it reaches 200 F, which it never did before.
• Dipstick gauge checked OK (1.5% deviation at 212F)
• Only on very hot days (90F +) and hard riding it reached
230 F before the incident, took forever to get hot in the city
• No unusual noise
• Plugs read OK, maybe a tad lean. AFR meter show 13.8-14 at cruise
• Idle not as smooth anymore, some stumbles, no misfire
• Found some oil in the a/c, but nothing unusual
• Put the bike on the dyno today
o 65 hp at 5400 rpm, about 88 tq at 3800 rpm (S&S IST ign.)
o 58 hp at 4600 rpm with a power drop from 4600 rpm SE adjustable ignition (setting curve 2, +2 retard)


• Runs at about 14000 miles with SE Ign showed:
o 91.5 HP at 5800 rpm, 97.5 tq at 4100 rpm, ignition setting as above.

At this time I do not have the run files, but will post them as soon as I get them. The tq curves today were lower, but not by much up to a bout 4000 rpm (4-6 loss)
I suspect issues with the rear cylinder; it’s much hotter to the touch than the front jug. Could it be ‘slightly seizing piston’ for lack of better word that generates tons of heat?
 

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Hello Vienna, regardless of the situation, it looks like you had an awesome road trip!

I'll offer this to you and by know means is it conclusive. You jogged my memory about one of these piston manufactures (axtell or wiseco?). Not sure which one but, they have some topic discussions on "micro-weld" on their web site. This is a situation where the piston/ring material heats up so much and fills the cylinder walls. I think this is the term you refer to as piston seize.

I don't know thing one about it or if it's even true.
 

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Have one or more of the adjustable pushrods backed off? Short stroking the valve(s).

Intake leak?

Head Gasket?

Sounds like you are going to have to go inside to find out what the issue is.
 

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It sounds like the ignition failed and retarded the timing enough to fry your rings. If you were running the sst ignition ignition at the time I would venture to say under the heavy load, up and down grades, using the engine for compression brake, the ignition was looking all over the place tring to self adjust for all these different pressures so its possible the ign retarded its self so much the cylinder area under fire from the combustion was over heating. If the cylinders got too hot the rings would lose their sealing capabilities, this would be the answer for the oil use and the power loss.
Take a compression test and a leak down test. The self adjusting ignition is electrical and is prone to fail so use a good known ignition after your repairs have been done have a set of Dyno runs done with the good ign then switch to the SST ign to see if there might be a problem with it. This is what I would do, if there is no bad noises, fuel is ok, oil use is too high, and just a power loss, it has to be low compression from bad rings or the timed ignition is off. Now if it was a piston starting to seize this would lower compression and use oil but a noise should be there too.
Good Luck my friend.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
More info

Guys,

thanks for the replies. Put the O2 sensor on the rear pipe to see what's going on there. idle AFR anywhere from 12.5 to off the scale associated with 'lopy' idle. AFR of the rear cylinder stabilizes above 2000 rpm with load to 13.5-13.8, not bad.

Doc, you are right, I had the IST installed on the trip for the very reason that it adjusts to the various conditions.

Before tearing into the engine we will:
Check the pushrods
Leakdown/cold comp testing

I'll keep you posted...........
 

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ViennaHog said:
Guys,

thanks for the replies. Put the O2 sensor on the rear pipe to see what's going on there. idle AFR anywhere from 12.5 to off the scale associated with 'lopy' idle. AFR of the rear cylinder stabilizes above 2000 rpm with load to 13.5-13.8, not bad.

Doc, you are right, I had the IST installed on the trip for the very reason that it adjusts to the various conditions.

Before tearing into the engine we will:
Check the pushrods
Leakdown/cold comp testing

I'll keep you posted...........
If the compression is low the fuel reading will show rich because the combustion is hindered, as the rpms are raised the compression will rise do to less time to leak past the rings so cumbustion will be better but still low on power.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Comparison runs

run comparison attached

run 9 with SE igntition before the incident
run10 with IST igntition
run 11 with SE ignition

stopped session after 2 runs due to high oil temperature and massive power loss compared to earlier run in July (not the best hp/tq run, but the one with the best drivability)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
kelly said:
Hello Vienna, regardless of the situation, it looks like you had an awesome road trip!

I'll offer this to you and by know means is it conclusive. You jogged my memory about one of these piston manufactures (axtell or wiseco?). Not sure which one but, they have some topic discussions on "micro-weld" on their web site. This is a situation where the piston/ring material heats up so much and fills the cylinder walls. I think this is the term you refer to as piston seize.

I don't know thing one about it or if it's even true.
Yep, the trip was great, just taking one mountain pass after the other. Some were so steep that the bike reved 4500 rpm in 1st gear............
Beautiful fall colors as bonus, very much like the Adirondacks during fall.
Fried the engine though.......
 

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I understand that the T.C.'s run at 235 degrees F. If you had to rev. to 4500 in low gear, that must have been one steep trip. I doubt you seized a piston.....if you had, you would have known immediately. It does sound like oil use is excessive.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
newultraclassic said:
I understand that the T.C.'s run at 235 degrees F. If you had to rev. to 4500 in low gear, that must have been one steep trip. I doubt you seized a piston.....if you had, you would have known immediately. It does sound like oil use is excessive.

Good luck.
Downhill at 4500 rpm in 1st gear I should have said. Trying to save the front brake.......
 

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ViennaHog said:
Yep, the trip was great, just taking one mountain pass after the other. Some were so steep that the bike reved 4500 rpm in 1st gear............
Beautiful fall colors as bonus, very much like the Adirondacks during fall.
Fried the engine though.......
Rode through both of them. While the Adirondacks are stunning during the fall, your neck of the woods (be the Italian part or the German part) have twisties and landscape more similar to the area U.S. are (in my opinion) to... Eastern Washington and Idaho of all paces. Of course your roads are meticulous compared to anything we have here! And, the Ads. are baby hills to the Alps! (my front brake disc was glo-orange by the time I got to the bottom of the Zugspitz--good thing a Gasthoff is on every turn!)

Here's a thought for your next adventure--our local dealer has the fly and ride program--Adams Center, NY--I got a 230 mile route I planned, rode, with trip meter readings at each turn, this past summer through the Ads. If you are interested in doing a ride through this area in the future, I'll gladly e-mail you all the plans and results from it.

Looks like you have decided what your winter project is going to be. I feel for your misfortune--dern.
 

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If ViennaHog doesn't take you up on the offer, I may ! I love that area, I go to Tug Hill for the ATVing and its simply an awesome area ! My only problem is that its almost 300 miles 'till I get there... :(
 

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stretch, tried to pm you but it says my stored messages are full and I don't have any stored messages. Seems I can't send you pm. If you can, PM me or email and I'll send you the info.
 

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kelly said:
stretch, tried to pm you but it says my stored messages are full and I don't have any stored messages. Seems I can't send you pm. If you can, PM me or email and I'll send you the info.
Check your "sent" mail folder......
 

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I used to use compression breaking in my cars by down shifting the automatic transmission. After going through a couple of transmissions over the years I determined that replacing the brakes was much cheaper.

Hope all goes well.
 
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