[randyeakin]

Have a new Ultra Classic that pings at low rpm and under load, such as taking off from a standstill. I'm burning Amoco Gold (92 Octane). Dealer installed Stage II Big Bore kit with SE cam and V&H Slip-Ons and advised against installing a Power Commander.

Also have intermittent engine noise between 2,000 - 2,500 in most gears and when pulling slight to moderate inclines at cruising speeds that sounds like a loose heat shield or like bb's swirling around in a metal bowl.

Anybody with similar issues have any ideas/thoughts on solutions?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Texxen]

Is the "Dealer" going to rebuild your "SE" engine when it detonates to pieces?

 

[HIPPO]

Well, if the engine pings you have to find a way to fix it, either by avoiding the specific conditions or tuning it out.

 

[Ed Y]

If this is all dealer installed, I would insist that they get it right. Agree with Hippo, it's gotta be fixed. If the dealer doesn't recommend a Power Commander, what about the new HD tuning setup. Don't remember exactly what it's called but it's supposed to be an alternative to the Power Commander.

Was a SE ignition module installed along with the rest of the stuff? I have heard that was a fix for pinging.

 

[HIPPO]

On a EFI bike you don't have the option of replacing rhe ignition module, you have to reprogram the map.

The EFI tuner is obviously the best and most flexible way to deal with these problems, but if the bike will not be modified any further a much less expensive DFO will do the job. It can only richen up fuel, but the ignition maps on the Delphi's are quite tolerant, in my experience you can tune it out with fuel, unless there is some other issue.

 

[Ed Y]

Yeah, you're right Hippo, about the ignition system on EFI bikes. Old age fart.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, as I am not an EFI expert. Other than the ECM flashs available from HD, there is no way to re-tune the map without using some kind of aftermaket setup like one of the DFO units or Power Commander or the EFI Race Tuner from HD.

 

[HIPPO]

That's correct.

The devil sometimes is in the little details. A few days ago a new member from Milwaukee mentioned a real small detail, ie that the stage maps they upload at the dealers are EPA friendly and not necessarily the same stage maps that are in the EFI tuners software. I take this with a grain of salt since I don't know the fellow's background, but it would explain a few things.

My contention that the stage maps can not possibly be optimal is based on a completely different line of thought.
The spec fuel pressure for the Delphi bikes according to the factory tech data is 55 to 62 psi. This means that if a dealer would take the time to measure it and it read anywhere in that range it would be considered normal. The fuel map for a bike running 55 psi would be radically different from the map for a bike running 62 psi. Elementary.
If you check enough bikes you will realize they do not all run the same fuel pressure.

This is stricly looking at the EFI system proper without going into variances in chamber volume, deck height, header pipe restriction on the rear cylinder, etc.

Can a stage reflash be pretty much on?, sure it can. Are the odds that it will be?, probably not.

There is a way to take the biggest variable out, but considering we have factory people snooping around I will keep this little piece of info to myself.

 

[tsuter]

Here is the paste from the other post.
On a 2002 Ultra 1550 Stage I which I drive there was always a clicking sound under acceleration from 1500-2800 RPM in 3, 4, 5 gears. Any incline or riding two up aggravates the sound. This was with dealer recailbration of the ECM . The sound is caused by the ECM doing Spark retard to eliminate knock under load. This is "normal". While this may not be too bad, it is still a big loss of power and a sign that the engine really wants to knock. One reason is even the recalibration supplied by HD for 1550 must stilll be EPA friendly
After loading the EFI tuner calibration, I tuned out all this problem in the 1500-3000 range by enriching the mixture for throttle positions 60-100%. On the EFI data map you could see the knock reatrd at all ranges before tuning and after loading the new calibration and tuning it is gone. My mileage may suffer under acceleration and load but I get no more noise and I get much better pick up. There was no comparison.
I guess this would be the same for all the touring bikes - but I ride and tune the Ultra..
I haven't dinked with the fuel pressure - at least not yet.

And for Hippo - I am an old factory guy - but not HD. Bosch L and K Jetronic for six cylinder 911 Turbos. Waited two years for HD's EFI Touring Bikes and yupper - I do know something about ECM/EFI. I'll try not to step on your toes.

 

[HIPPO]

I'm not worried about anyone stepping on my toes, we are pretty much saying the same thing, just approaching it from a slightly different angle.
I'm not questioning your statement as you can see from my post, just wondering if it was a conclusion you came to or were in the position to absolutely know this for a fact. There is a difference.
It takes one to know one and our background is very similar. I find the information exchange very interesting and it became inmediately apparent you had far more knowledge about these systems then a civilian or even a dealer tech could possibly have.
When you showed up it was inmediately after HD decided to interfere with the operation of this site and you just happen to live in Milwaukee, so I adopted a wait and see attitude, nothing personal.
Two or more minds can always come up with more then one. I don't even mind exchanging some information with a HD factory engineer as long as he is acting off the record and have done so on ocasion in the past, but lately the attitude of the factory and in particular the dealers has forced me into much less of a friendly attitude. Again, nothing personal.

They do have all the information and all the means, but never underestimate the freedom of working outside of a system and the ability to take very unconventional approaches.

The only thing I'm not buying about your story is the old part. I go back all the way to the D Jetronic.

 

[tsuter]

Man thaaat's old!!!!