[HarleyHeevo]

Got started on stripping the bike for my build. Things were going smoothly until I got to the intake bolts. Im headed to Sears this morning after they open to get the proper tools. Id like to hear from the guys out there who have done this about things to watch out for. Things to do. Things not to do. Any Advice? I have the manual, and Ill be bagging and tagging everything. Im going to pick up a thread cleaning kit while Im at sears. Any suggestions would be valued. Thanks a bunch.

 

[Ozzie In Arabia]

Got started on stripping the bike for my build. Things were going smoothly until I got to the intake bolts. Im headed to Sears this morning after they open to get the proper tools. Id like to hear from the guys out there who have done this about things to watch out for. Things to do. Things not to do. Any Advice? I have the manual, and Ill be bagging and tagging everything. Im going to pick up a thread cleaning kit while Im at sears. Any suggestions would be valued. Thanks a bunch.

Things you probably know anyway................important to have enough of a bench area to lay out the parts you take off in their groups including nuts and bolts.

Use the oil you will run in the engine on the piston and ring assemblies

Again wipe the cylinders and the piston skirts with oil before fitting them

Make sure to fit intake to heads before tightening heads down to get correct alignment of intake manifold to ports.

I also give a wipe of oil on the seals also to assist with getting them leak free.

Some of the others will start to chime in soon...........and dont worry if you get into trouble just get back on here and we will see what we can do.

All the best, Ozzie

 

[Totenkopf]

Howdy Ozzie,

How 'ya been? Was curious about your opinion on this......

I was in a discussion regarding piston / cylinder assembly recently and heard from an old-timer motor builder that they just lube the piston skirts. That if you lube the cylinder walls, all that oil will be picked up and collected by the top ring as the cylinder is slid into place. The cylinder prep I thought to understand was wash with soapy water and rinse thoroughly with clean water, then dry, then spray and wipe down with brake clean. Assemble and orient rings correctly to pistons, assemble piston to the rod, lube piston skirts, then assemble the cylinder to the case.

The trouble with the top ring catching the oil might have been in the context of hurting a thinner type of top ring used on Wiseco pistons but I'm not 100% sure. But I got the impression that this was the standard assembly procedure they used all the time.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Ozzie In Arabia]

Howdy Ozzie,

How 'ya been? Was curious about your opinion on this......

I was in a discussion regarding piston / cylinder assembly recently and heard from an old-timer motor builder that they just lube the piston skirts. That if you lube the cylinder walls, all that oil will be picked up and collected by the top ring as the cylinder is slid into place. The cylinder prep I thought to understand was wash with soapy water and rinse thoroughly with clean water, then dry, then spray and wipe down with brake clean. Assemble and orient rings correctly to pistons, assemble piston to the rod, lube piston skirts, then assemble the cylinder to the case.

The trouble with the top ring catching the oil might have been in the context of hurting a thinner type of top ring used on Wiseco pistons but I'm not 100% sure. But I got the impression that this was the standard assembly procedure they used all the time.

Any thoughts on this?

Hello Totenkopf

..........6 of 1..........1/2 a dozen of the other.............but I will stick to how I have been doing it ever since my first motor.

I dont mean to have the cylinders or piston skirts dripping in oil........if you noticed I stated a wipe, by this I mean a few drops in the cylinder and on the skirts and then I use my finger to smear the oil over the entire surface.

Would not even be a drop left above the top ring after cycling the engine..........it is all in the experience of the guy doing the build and how many he has done.

On a different note.............when heat cycling the motor, some say to let the motor sit for 20/30 minutes idling then cool down to ambient temp............I prefer to ride the bike for the first 30 minutes then stop and let cool down to ambient.

Some others say it is not necessary to heat cycle the engine when doing a top end change out...........I believe it is just as necessary.

All the best, Ozzie

 

[vafatboy]

If your going into the cam cover don't forget to be sure the lower bolt holes on the case for the cover are clear of oil. When you remove the cover oil will run into these oils.

Upon assembly if the oil is still there it could hydrolock and crack your case.

Another helpful thing for me was a drill press with wire wheel to clean up all the locktite from the bolts.

 

[fijfi]

Ozzie, Doc

What are your thoughts on using a 50/50 mix of STP oil treatment (a little thickish) and motor oil. The oil treatment make the oil stay on the cylinder walls and bearings, until start up.

The basis for my asking this is all of the engines that I've rebuilt have been marine diesels and I have always used this mix.

I know that these are completely different beasts, and it may not be necessary for a bike engine.

TIA for your opinions on this.

 

[Seahag]

I'm not Ozzie or Doc but,

When I did my motor, I went to autozone and picked up a tube of engine assembly lube with moly. I wiped a thin coating of the stuff on all mating surfaces and its like a grease and clings to where you put it.

Not sure if this is recommended or not...but it is called engine assembly lube; and so far with over 17,000 miles on my motors big bore, it doesn't seem to have hurt anything.

 

[fijfi]

I'm not Ozzie or Doc but,

When I did my motor, I went to autozone and picked up a tube of engine assembly lube with moly. I wiped a thin coating of the stuff on all mating surfaces and its like a grease and clings to where you put it.

Not sure if this is recommended or not...but it is called engine assembly lube; and so far with over 17,000 miles on my motors big bore, it doesn't seem to have hurt anything.

Seahag,

Thanks for the reply.

We used the STP oil treatment mixed with oil and it worked the same as assembly lube. One of the last engines that I overhauled was a 16 cyl. Fairbanks Morse with a 8 1/8" bore. This mixture worked GREAT, just wasn't sure if it was needed for a V-twin. Not much has ever been mentioned on these rebuild threads about this.

 

[HarleyHeevo]

Great advice. Today I got the heads off and the cam support plate out. Waiting on cam tools, gasket kit and heads before I can do much more. I will post some pictures soon. Thanks for the help.

 

[HarleyHeevo]

While Im thinking about it, the head bolts made a mighty crack when busting them loose. Is that normal? Followed the manual and only turned them a 1/4 turn at a time, but after the initial 1/4 turn they were pretty much finger loose.

 

[fijfi]

the head bolts made a mighty crack when busting them loose. Is that normal?

Most bolts that have a decent amount of torque make this noise when breaking them loose.

 

[Ozzie In Arabia]

If your going into the cam cover don't forget to be sure the lower bolt holes on the case for the cover are clear of oil. When you remove the cover oil will run into these oils.

Upon assembly if the oil is still there it could hydrolock and crack your case.

Another helpful thing for me was a drill press with wire wheel to clean up all the locktite from the bolts.

Yes, good point, this has happened to someone on here a while back.

All the best, Ozzie

 

[Ozzie In Arabia]

Ozzie, Doc

What are your thoughts on using a 50/50 mix of STP oil treatment (a little thickish) and motor oil. The oil treatment make the oil stay on the cylinder walls and bearings, until start up.

The basis for my asking this is all of the engines that I've rebuilt have been marine diesels and I have always used this mix.

I know that these are completely different beasts, and it may not be necessary for a bike engine.

TIA for your opinions on this.

It all gets down to assembly time to reach start up..............with the idea being to ensure that there is a type of lubrication on the cylinder wall for the first few revolutions of the motor.

The reason behind having lubrication on the cylinder walls is to get the rings to slide over the "ridges" in the initial revolutions of the motor...........this helps in stopping the rings folding over these "ridges" created by the honing process.

These ridges are the micro surface created by the honing process and are designed to assist the ring and bore "mate" to each other to achieve a full ring seal and then true full power in the engine.

If the "ridges" do get folded over because of too harsh running of the engine in the first 75/100 miles.............they then trap engine oil and when the piston has moved down on the firing stroke..........this oil gets burned and leaves a varnish on the surface of the cylinder wall which is known as cylinder glazing, this then leads to blow by and poor ring to cylinder seal which robs power and eventually deteriorates to the point of severly effecting performance.

Getting the tightest possible piston to cylinder fit also stops the piston rocking and upsetting the ring seal.........however if the piston rubs too hard in the bore then this robs power dramatically as well..

If you could dyno your bike with all 3 rings and then remove the second ring and re dyno..........you will be amazed at the increase in power you get from this..............of course your motor will not last all that long.............similar increase as fitting an electric water pump and cooling fans to your v8 and removing the fan belt.

So getting back to your lube mix idea...........these concoctions are designed to ensure that you have some type of lubrication on the cylinder surfaces and that this lubrication remains there during the assembly process and has not slide off the surface, so to speak, until startup.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Logic dictates that it is extremeley important to have no dry surfaces anywhere in the engine at initial start up...............I like to roll the motor over by hand before starting to ensure that the oil has circulated throughout the engine.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All rotating equipment for that matter goes through the harshest treatment at startup and shutdown......as the reciprocating parts heat up and go to their "hotset" running positions and sizes...........this also creates the highest wear of components at this point in an engines life.

Some companies get the highest mileage out of their truck engines because they never turn the engines off and have the trucks operating all over....24 hours a day......they just change drivers....how much this is done nowadays I dont know but it was attempted back in the 70`s/ 80`s

If it were possible to machine all the components that make up an engine at their actual operating temperatures then I believe the reliability and performance of the engine would increase dramatically.

All the best, Ozzie

 

[HDWRENCH]

I throw away the left side intake allens and replace with the short allens/hex head rocker bolts they work great!!! They have a self contained washer you can use a wrench or allen and they are free I keep the stock ones when customers go to SS or chrome. They make a allen that has a 70* angle or you can make you own with a torche and cut the end a bit to get it in there. For the right side a ball allen that is 4-5 inches long ( socket type) works the best, even then I have had to give them a rap with a hammer to break them free.

 

[woodwalkertc88]

Got started on stripping the bike for my build. Things were going smoothly until I got to the intake bolts. Im headed to Sears this morning after they open to get the proper tools. Id like to hear from the guys out there who have done this about things to watch out for. Things to do. Things not to do. Any Advice? I have the manual, and Ill be bagging and tagging everything. Im going to pick up a thread cleaning kit while Im at sears. Any suggestions would be valued. Thanks a bunch.

i have had my eye on the thread clean kit for a while in the sears catolog , i have used tap and dyes in the past , my 98 " will have to have the rings filed ,does yours ? i am trying to borrow the tool for that

 

[HarleyHeevo]

Yep, I need to file the rings as well. I took my cams and camplate down to the indy this afternoon and he pressed them in for $25. He also rented me the bearing tools for $10 bucks, I couldnt believe it. I might ask him to gap my rings when I bring back the tools tomorrow or ask to rent his ring filer.

 

[carlgouldin]

Yep, I need to file the rings as well. I took my cams and camplate down to the indy this afternoon and he pressed them in for $25. He also rented me the bearing tools for $10 bucks, I couldnt believe it. I might ask him to gap my rings when I bring back the tools tomorrow or ask to rent his ring filer.

File fitting rings is an easy process. The only tools need is a sharp machine file(not meant for wood) a vice to hold the file, feeler gauge to measure ring gap of .018. put ring in cylinder and use your the top of the piston to square up the ring in the cylinder bore and push down below 1/2". Carefully measure the gap in each ring till you get .018 and be sure you have no burs on the rings when done.

Also and be sure that you keep each ring set and cylinder seperate. Gap a ring set for a specific cylinder. Viola' your done. Should take less than half an hour.

 

[HarleyHeevo]

Sounds easy, Ill give it a try. Thanks

 

[Seahag]

Gapping rings really is a piece of cake...even without a bench vise. I just used the edge of my counter....and it only took about two or three strokes to remove the material...so don't go overboard. I checked my ring gap after each full pass with the file.

 

[LAF]

Gapping rings really is a piece of cake...even without a bench vise. I just used the edge of my counter....and it only took about two or three strokes to remove the material...so don't go overboard. I checked my ring gap after each full pass with the file.

Yep, first build this is how I did it. I will also add to check them in 3 places in the cylinder to get the average. In a perfect world we would not need to do this but................
EDIT:
Also make sure best you can on ring gap alignment on the lands of the piston and look well for the dots to show which way the ring is facing, up or down, if this applies to your ring set.