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Discussion Starter #1

Is it really worth going for the extra 100cc's ?


1450 STAGE 1 EFI KIT
Part code: 29489-99C Price: £134.36
SE 203 CAM KIT
Part code: 25937-99B Price: £258.44

Total: £392.80

1550 STAGE 2 EFI KIT
Part code: 29492-99C Price: £827.14

Saving:£434.34

Would it not be better to put this saving towards a 'ThunderHeader'
or a set of SE performance Heads, considering there's few places over
here that I'd trust to port the OEM heads etc.
And the less 'down time' the better.

KIT TC88 PERF HDS; BLK
Part code: 16952-99A Price: £982.24

What kind of figures might one get if ya went Stage2 1450, SE performance Heads and a 'Thunderheader'?

Periferals like a pc and ign I'll think about later.
(SE. BIG-BORE CYLINDERS FORTC 88 MODELS
Part code: 16546-99 Price: £310.14
KIT; 1550 PISTON; FLAT TOP; ST
Part code: 22851-99A Price: £124.02
)
 

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I had the same question. In all my dealings with engines the power comes from the heads more than the displacement. A good head job and a set of cams should do enough if not more than the stage 2 kit. All you need to do is find someone who knows what hes doing with the heads.(I sure there are a few on this forum that fit that bill) I stuck between the stage 2 kit and the head and cams, or maybe both.

What all comes in the stage 1 kit other than whats listed in the catalog? When I price the parts seperately they are about 400 since I already have the breather kit. The cams are another 200 plus gaskets.
 

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Not necessarily. Power is in the heads but not like you may think. Heads do not "make" power, they allow the potential of a package to be realized.

The big bore is more important then 7 CI might indicate. It will allow you to significantly increase CR with almost stock size chambers which will allow you to run a good cam.
We have found a way to make really good torque with the TC's very inexpensively, ie without heads, for those that do not want to invest in head work.
 

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Hippo, What would you recommend to increase hp and torque. All I am looking for is a bit more. How about the high compression pistons/95" cylinders and cams. I was leaning towards the SE II kit.
 

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If you pull the heads for any reason the added cost is small for the extra 10% in power the 7 CI can give you. Thunderheader can also yeald a very good HP gain but cost more than going to1550 if you use flat tops. Head work is not needed indeed but a simple clean up of the ports and making sure the heads have equial chamber volume for even power is a verry simple task. Folks that want the most they can get from the stock heads (for there given build up)are the main core of people having profesional head work done.
 

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On my 2001 fxdx I did a tw50 cam and screaming eagle heads and left the bore stock. Also did s./e. adjustable ignition and s&s super e carb. Wish I would have went with a mikuni instead. It carbed okay if you were wacked wide open goinig through the gears but the roll on could have been better. Made 90h.p. and 88 ft.lbs. torque. The problem with that set up was at 3000 rpm I only had about 75 ft lbs. I was going to do the big bore this winter but got ran over by a cage and had to trade the bike in so I could ride to Sturgis. On a bagger I would really recommend the big bore because all the charts I have looked at show that it really widens the torque substantuaily.
 

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"Is it worth the money", is always a personal question anyway. Is a custom HD numbered paint job worth $4,000? It must be to someone.
 

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All the SE kits are compromises intended to be bolt on by relatively unskilled people. Within that limitation they do well.

More professional people work off measurements as opposed to specs and this gives them the opportunity to optimize several little things that added together make a world of difference.

I would say that quite a few people would be very happy with the results they can get from cams, a cylinder bore and cast flat top big bore piston set, some specific gaskets and a bit of dimensional tweaking. Way under $1000.00 for the components and machine work.

One would need deck height and chamber volumes of the specific engine as well as rider weight and riding style for starters to make specific suggestions.

This weekend there is a large motorcycle trade show in Phoenix at the Civic Center. We will have a booth there with a few interesting things, so if you are in the neighborhood feel free to stop by.
 

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I understand completly. I think I will just stay with the 95" Stage 2 kit for now. By ride is EFI and I don't believe there are many wrenches around NJ that really understand the systems completly and I don't want to put the bike up for a few months. Life is full of trade offs.
 

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Discussion Starter #11

Hey Hippo, how much could you sell me a set of re-worked Heads for intead of going SE permfermance? (considering their cost to us over here! :eek:
HIPPO said:

We have found a way to make really good torque with the TC's very inexpensively, ie without heads, for those that do not want to invest in head work.
Could you elaborate a bit on this 'Scottish' tune up?
 

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The Vortec heads for the 95" are $695.00 but we sell them wholesale for $595.00 which is what we could let you have them for. I think this isn't a good option for you as you would get killed on the shipping.
You can get pretty close without heads but you would have to give me the info I asked for for me to make suggestions both on engine and mapping.
How I come to my conclusions I consider personal intellectual property and I'm getting a bit tired of people other then private individuals copying my $hit or talking out of school. Considering you are in Europe I might give you some data privately.
 

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The shipping would be two ways, so you can see it's not a realistic option.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)

HIPPO said:

You can get pretty close without heads but you would have to give me the info I asked for for me to make suggestions both on engine and mapping.
HIPPO said:

One would need deck height and chamber volumes of the specific engine as well as rider weight and riding style for starters to make specific suggestions.
How do you go about measuring the 'Deck Height' and 'Chamber Volume'?
Weight is only 120lbs so that shouldn't 'really' enter the equation?
Riding style moderate to aggressive, 90mph daily.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
harleyhog said:
How do you go about measuring the 'Chamber Volume'?
(deck height also)
Found elsewhere. A stock head, cc's out to 83.8cc. The valve stem protrusion was .200" on both valves.

I know you know all this Hippo, I'm just 'fishin'.
Does one need to pull the heads to find these 'true' measurements?
 

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120 lb??????

Blahahahahahahahaaaaaa!!!!!!!

You must mean Kg.

The spec for chamber volume on the TC's is actually 85 cc, when you measure them they usually come in at 82 to 88 cc.
Just take the heads off and clean the gasket surface, surround the chamber with a little grease and put a piece of plexiglass with two holes on the chamber. Fill it with water from a graduated measuring vial and you have your number.

The deck height you clamp the cylinders down to compress the O ring and run the piston to TDC. If the piston is perfectly flush with the cylinder the deck height is 0 which is the spec. Sometimes it is as much as .020" off.

You don't have to do this now, just when you do the work, it takes me less then a minute to come up with the answer.

In the meantime buy a cam, TW37b to TW44 and a Cometic .032" head gasket set. The machining is childs play and in a place like England can be done most anywhere if you tell them what to do as these heads are exceedingly simple to mount on a mill.

What pipes are on that thing?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Originally posted by HIPPO
120 lb??????
Blahahahahahahahaaaaaa!!!!!!!
You must mean Kg.
Nope! 14lbs to the Stone, I'm 10 Stone Exactly.
Add a nought to the 14= 140lbs!!! :eek:

I need to eat a Sheep, Blahahaha.....:D

Originally posted by HIPPO
What pipes are on that thing?
The whole Engine/Headers, pipes are the
OEM Crap! :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Will the Deck Height need to be measured 'After' the cylinders are
re-bored and fitted with flat tops?
HIPPO said:
cams, a cylinder bore and cast flat top big bore piston set, some specific gaskets
Just trying to calculate 'downtime' (ie, Re-bore first then head skimming) and work out a time table of 'when' I'll be able to do this.
Also, I like the thought of 'all out [email protected]' high RPM TQ/HP with the TW44 but whats it like at slower speeds, Idle etc
Is the 44 suitable for EFI?

The place I'm looking at over here only does Cometic Gaskets at....
.025" .030" .040" and thicker........
 

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Preferrably but not necessarily, the pistons are pretty accurate (as long as you stay with the SE's) and the boring of the cylinders doesn't affect the height.
 
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