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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Does anyone actually know how timing is affected in the ECM recalibrations? Or is it just one of those HD secrets shrouded in mystery?

I've spent at least two hours reading through threads on this forum. Most comments address the rev limiter and generally talk about fuel changes. So it seems we really don't know much about the timing parameters.

GROCK was about the only one that offered more of an explaination than general comments of "raises rev limiter", changes fuel map" or is a "waste of money".

GROCK stated "Timing is also changed from stock when doing the download. Depending on cams it can be very gentle to a little more aggressive for some of the HP maps. But none of them are really aggressive. If you are thinking of getting the flash to get the REV limiter up, then you will benefit slightly from timing change also. Although I am never a big fan of the $150 for the dealer flash, especially for the change into a mild TW26 cam, but going to a 95" gets a little better throttle response and high end running with the flash. You also get slightly different parameters for idle, starting, etc., as the ECU is now adjusted for a 95" and adjusts tables accordingly.

Here's what I've heard - don't know if accurate or not.

Stage I ECM recalibration - No timing changes in download. Fuel changes. Rev Limiter is raised from 5800-6200 rpms.

Stage II recalibration - Timing is retarded (slower advance curve), Fuel changes. With the timing backed off, reduces potential for pinging? What's the impact when using in combo with the PC?

Lets say the downloads were free and we're running running 95" bikes with the TW21/TW26/TW37 and the Power Commander - what would be the ideal recalibration to use with the Power Commander and why? IMHO I think all that is needed is the stock ECM parameters or for those that want to raise the rev limiter, the Stage 1 ECM recalibration, that way there are no timing changes. An experienced tuner can make appropriate timing changes with the PC. I'm thinking if you have the Stage II recalibrations, potential for issues........ But then again as GROCK mentioned "Going to a 95" gets a little better throttle response and high end running with the flash. You also get slightly different parameters for idle, starting, etc., as the ECU is now adjusted for a 95" and adjusts tables accordingly, so if the recalibration was free should we do the Stage II for those reasons?

Has anyone had issues with the Stage II calibration and had the Stock or Stage I reloaded?

For those running more aggresive cams / higher CR, would they benefit from the Stage II downloads and the retarded timing in combo with their PC?
 

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SEDELUXE05 said:
i had the stage 2 done when i had my build(htcc ported heads,pistons,bbkit,251 se cam) way to lean got a dfo to richen it up a bit. you figure $150.00 stage 1 + $150.00 stage 2 + $160.00 dfo = $460.00. $385.00 sert with all the stages plus tuneabilty priceless. so you see the stages are all canned epa legeal maps that cannot be tuned once downloaded to the bike.i do not know how he racefueler is never used it. a lot of buddies of mine are running pc3 and like them very much but they do not touch them. i try to stay away from the timing intervals as much as possible because i really do not understand it to much just my -2$en#e-
Since the Stage II is for 203 cams and flat top pistons, you'd have been way better off skipping the reflash and DFo and going straight to the EFI Tuner.

Race Fueler is awesome - far superior to a DFO
 

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Ghost Rider - IronButt
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This is an interesting topic. I've actually heard from experienced techs that one should not install ANY ECM downloads prior to having their PC tuned...allowing for a better tuning. Personally, I have a hard time understanding this logic (I have the Stage 1 w/ PC!). Any thoughts?
 

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rodriguc said:
This is an interesting topic. I've actually heard from experienced techs that one should not install ANY ECM downloads prior to having their PC tuned...allowing for a better tuning. Personally, I have a hard time understanding this logic (I have the Stage 1 w/ PC!). Any thoughts?
Are you using a custom map or a canned map for your build?
 
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