V-Twin Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have 96 FLHRI with SE stage 2, Reinharts and would like to go with more displacement. Curently dynos at 90 hp, 90 ft/lbs tq. but would like more. Any of you Evo gurus out there with some thoughts about which Big Bore kits would work with my set up? Is it as simple as barrels, pistons and heads. (Dont want to deal with a stroker) Will the boost in displacement push fuel demand outside of the range of the fuel injection's capabilities? Who makes kits for Evos now? Any thing else I need to consider?
Thanks,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I just saw the Axtell big bore kits (88 and 97) and they seem like a bolt on solution for carburated bikes (using their manifold). Comes with barrels, pistons, rings and gaskets. Has anyone used these?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
395 Posts
lgyee4 said:
I just saw the Axtell big bore kits (88 and 97) and they seem like a bolt on solution for carburated bikes (using their manifold). Comes with barrels, pistons, rings and gaskets. Has anyone used these?
they are not "bolt on solutions" you must pull the engine and bore out the cases. the only bolt on big bore is an 85 cubic in. that uses a nikosil lining instead of sleeves. google up nikosil or revolution engines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
spgtti said:
they are not "bolt on solutions" you must pull the engine and bore out the cases. the only bolt on big bore is an 85 cubic in. that uses a nikosil lining instead of sleeves. google up nikosil or revolution engines.
Thanks spgtti, I found it!
:thanks:
 

·
>>> The Curmudgeon <<<
Joined
·
352 Posts
spgtti said:
they are not "bolt on solutions" you must pull the engine and bore out the cases. the only bolt on big bore is an 85 cubic in. that uses a nikosil lining instead of sleeves. google up nikosil or revolution engines.
Don't know if I'd go to a bigger bore alone, unless you go real big. IMO, the increase in displacement is not worth the work and money, unless you go to 3 13/16. (Probably not a good idea with the stock cases).

I spoke to the folks at Axtell about the 1996 cases, and they said something like they were seeing no real problems, but couldn't say for sure that any individual engine would work out okay. Makes sense.

Since you have to split the cases anyway, why not go 3 5/8 x 4 1/2? About the only added cost (over boring alone) is for the stroker crank. You can get the parts in a kit, which gets you matched and clearanced parts (mostly).

I've known one guy who ran a turbo on 1996 cases with no troubles, so I think the cases are probably okay up to about that (3 5/8) bore, but I personally might consider just a stock bore 89 inch stroker--but then I'm more concerned about reliability than many are. Of course, since you're gonna spend nearly three grand on the engine anyway, you could go an extra thousand and get new cases too.

And since you're now at 90/90, I'd guess the cam you've got installed is probably gonna be too short, and probably not right for a stroker motor anyway. And the exhaust will need some work. And the heads might be near their limit at 90 HP...

You know, you can buy a near-complete 100+ horse engine for about what you'd spend on yours. I've been at the same point you are for some time now, and I just find it harder and harder to justify putting more money into my old Evo. I might just have to rob a bank and get me a 124, I guess. Used to be cool to build your own stuff. Now you get beat by someone who...well, never mind. I guess I'm not in a real good mood right now.

Point is, we're at the point where there are not many simple, relatively inexpensive things left to do. Anything that will make a real difference will cost thousands, and I, at least, am not certain that I'm ready to go there. I might just stay at 80 inches, settle for a couple horses here and there, and be happy knowing that I chose all the parts and did all the work (except for fitting the pistons).

BTW, I'd love to see the chart on an SE Stage 2 80-incher with those exhausts that gets 90/90. Do you have it available?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I finally found the print outs from the dyno but like my fishing stories, they seem to have grown in the years since. In 03' the print out shows 88 ft/lbs and 82 max pwr. Sorry to mislead you, perhaps wishful thinking on my part for more power. I appreciate all the help and advice from you gurus and I'll be using your advice in my quest for more power.
And I'll try to post the printout as I get to a digital camera.
Thanks
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
461 Posts
You can easily get in the 95/95 area with the right combination of head work, cam, and exhaust and not even split the cases, or the 96" S&S can be bought complete for around the $4,000 area. I have a '96 Ultra making power in that area that is very reliable and now has right at 12,000 miles on the build. I've often thought if I ever grenade this engine, I will buy the 96" S&S which I think is a very good value for what you get.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
395 Posts
ROY YOUNG said:
You can easily get in the 95/95 area with the right combination of head work, cam, and exhaust and not even split the cases, or the 96" S&S can be bought complete for around the $4,000 area. I have a '96 Ultra making power in that area that is very reliable and now has right at 12,000 miles on the build. I've often thought if I ever grenade this engine, I will buy the 96" S&S which I think is a very good value for what you get.
roy, what's your combination to get 95/95 out of 80 c.i.? i've got SE-4 w/stock SE heads and slip-ons and only saw 76hp/86tq w/stock rev limiter. so share,i want some too!
 

·
>>> The Curmudgeon <<<
Joined
·
352 Posts
spgtti said:
roy, what's your combination to get 95/95 out of 80 c.i.? i've got SE-4 w/stock SE heads and slip-ons and only saw 76hp/86tq w/stock rev limiter. so share,i want some too!
While I'm not sure I'd call it "easily available", it certainly can be done, even with stock SE heads. However, you'll never get there with an SE4, and certainly not with the stock rev limiter. (Why would you bother with SE heads if you were only going to use the stock rev limit?) You'll probably not get there with slip-ons, either, though I've owned some that I thought worked pretty well on the street. If you have an injected bike, the throttle body will limit you to about 85 horses or so, but you can get a bigger one. If you have a carb, you're okay with re-jetting as indicated. If you're still at 9.5:1 CR, you'll need to get up to 10.5 or so. With those heads, that means fitting different pistons. I'd probably consider a different air cleaner if you're using the small SE one, and a different cover if you're using the stock one.

Plan on turning the thing up to about 6200 or so, with max torque around 4500 and max horse power around 5800-6000. That means a cam that is around 245-250 duration. I think you can do it with one that closes the intakes around 45 or so, and opens the exhaust around 50 or so, but that may be a little conservative, so you might need more. Ask the manufacturer. Those heads work best with lift above .550, so think in that area or better. You'll be getting to the level that you need to think about clearances, but you should be okay (with the heads anyway). Don't know about the cases, though. Might need to clearance them, depending on the base circle/lobe lift of the cam you choose. I'd go with roller rockers with the cam you're going to need. Consider better lifters and blocks as well, since you're going to be stressing them more. The stock oil pump is marginally okay (imo), and those that pump more eat up more horsepower anyway, but if it worried you, you could replace it with one that pumps more volume. This engine will overpower the stock clutch, so I'd think about going with something else. At least the pressure plate, frictions, and steels. The shell will stand up okay. I'd probably replace the tranny pulley with one with 30 teeth--or with 29 teeth if I added a six-speed--but that depends on the torque curve you end up with and the weight of you and your bike. (I'm assuming you're interested in "sprinting", since this isn't really a two-up touring engine you're thinking about).

I've seen 105 horses with a decent torque curve from 80 inches. Doc has built over-100 horse engines. My own engine is over 90 horses with 80,000 miles on it in an FL. It can be done.

As you can see, you need a cam with different timing, different pistons, different exhaust, different ignition, different, different, different... basically everything but the heads. If you just want a recipe, without having to think, look on Woods web site. He's showing some good combinations there, with excellent power.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
395 Posts
barrybasinger said:
While I'm not sure I'd call it "easily available", it certainly can be done, even with stock SE heads. However, you'll never get there with an SE4, and certainly not with the stock rev limiter. (Why would you bother with SE heads if you were only going to use the stock rev limit?)
.

barry,thanks for a great post. to answer your question,the se heads were an after thought due to time and conveniance when i was down with a blown head gasket and almost siezed crankpin.it was a bolt on increase in compression and actually did some justice to the tq curve. as far as i could find out,the se ignition module does'nt change anything but the rev limit and for some reason my mental state is adversly affected when the revs approach 5200. i was told by more than a few i should have re-worked the stock heads but again it was a time thing. guess i'll have to start thinking different,different,different. again,great post.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
461 Posts
Great post Barry as always! I agree with what your saying completely, it does take alot of work but really no more than you're going to spend on a 95" TC to get in the same HP and TQ area. Do you agree? I quess the point I really wanted to make is most people included myself don't realize the potential the EVO has by leaving it 80" and not even half to pull the engine or split the cases. Another thing I like about this build is it is just 80", meaning no starter problems, and no cooling issues when running an oil cooler. Also I have to admit, it's kind of cool having an 80" Ultra that performs like this does compared to some of the TC's I ride with. Basicly, most can't beleive it's an 80" motor.
As far as parts are concerned, I went with SE lifters and just clearanced my stock blocks. My clutch is completely stock except for a Rivera 20 percent over spring, and I re-geared the primary to 3.37.
With these heavy springs I'm running with the 6H, I do get some lifter clatter when coming down to idle after running 80-85 MPH fully loaded pulling a trailer, but that is only when the temp. is 90 to 100 degrees, and only with 20-50 oil. I have absolutely no clatter using straight 50wt. at those temps. and this is with the stock oil pump. The difference between 8 psi. (w/20-50 wt.) versus 10-11 psi. (w/straight 50 wt.) when the engine has really been loaded hard and the outside temp. is up there, means the difference between clatter or no clatter.
Last I want to say with this gearing and the 6H cam, even with this heavy bike, you have to really be on your toes to get this thing shifted into 2nd gear before hitting the rev limiter at 6200 when you twist it open.
 

·
>>> The Curmudgeon <<<
Joined
·
352 Posts
spgtti said:
... a bolt on increase in compression and actually did some justice to the tq curve. as far as i could find out,the se ignition module does'nt change anything but the rev limit and for some reason my mental state is adversly affected when the revs approach 5200....
SE heads on your bike at that state of build probably gave you 3-4 HP and 3-4 TQ.

I can't think of a way to get real good HP out of 80 inches with an engine that will only turn 5200 RPM, since RPM is such a factor in the calculation of HP.

What sort of torque would be required to get 100 HP at 5200 RPM? Just about 100 lbs/ft. With a near-normal torque curve, you'd also have something like 130 lbs/ft at 3200 or so (I'm guessing here). I just don't see that out of 80 inches. You need to twist it higher if you want that magic 100 HP.

Your heads and flat-top pistons, an SE air cleaner, a Woods W6 (bolts in) and a decent set of slip-ons can get you 80+ HP and near 90 lbs/ft of torque (with a real good curve) with a little tuning, but you'll still need to be able to turn at least 56-5800 even with that cam.

Best advice I've seen about revs is "keep it below 5800 'unless you want to make a statement'". I think 6200 seems to be a good "statement" limit on a street Evo with stock lower end, and I'm comfortable with that.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top