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Terrorists suck!
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I got pulled over on Sunday for speeding. (56 in a 45) No problem, I was speeding and pulled over as soon as the officer hit his overhead lights. Just like normal, he walked to the car as asked for license and registration.

No problem officer, I reach into the glove box and hand him my registration, reach into my wallet and hand him my driver's license. At that point the officer says, I noticed your carry permit (I live in Indiana and the lifetime CCW license is an ugly pink color) anyway the officer asks if I have a weapon in the truck. I tell him yes, I have a Colt mustang .380. He asks if I would slowly hand it to him as he puts his hand on his weapon. I give it to him slowly and he tells me for his safety he will keep it until after the traffic stop.

He goes back to his vehicle and makes sure I am not a axe murderer. ( I have no tickets in over 15 years). After about 5 minutes he come back to my truck and tells me he is giving me a ticket for speeding and gives me back my weapon, without the magazine and with one hollow point in his hand (from the chamber I assume), tells me about the ticket and encourages me to drive within the speed limit.

I believe if he had not seen my permit, he would have not asked if I had any weapons and would not have taken mine. I understand his need for safety but I still feel violated because he took it away from me. I will keep my permit in the part of my wallet with my cash from now on. I guess I am venting and rambling so I will stop right here.
 

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FOG
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I don't know about Indiana, but many states require that CHL holders notify an officer immediately upon contact....as in when you hand the officer both your DL and CHL. Indiana might not require that.

We (OHP) faced the issue of how to handle this situation when Oklahoma first got CHLs. My position won. I was strongly in favor of the Trooper leaving the gun where it was unless there was a good reason to do otherwise, instructing the motorist to leave the gun where it was and just proceeding with the contact as usual. We always assumed the motorist might be armed anyway and tried to watch what was going on as best we could.

My position was that some CHL holders and some officers might not be really familiar with a particular gun and how to safely handle it. The more a gun is handled, the more likely an accident is to happen.

The other part of my position was that the CHL holder is licensed by the state to carry that concealed weapon and as long as the licensee is doing what he/she is supposed to be doing, the officer has no business taking lawfully held property even temporarily. The vast, vast majority of CHL holders pose no threat whatsoever to officers....certainly much less threat than the general public.

I'd contact that agency and find out what their (or the state's) policy or law is re: the officer taking your gun. I don't see the point in it and believe it to be improper if there is no law or written policy on the matter.
 

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Keep the rubber side down
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You feel violated? How do you think the families of officers shot in the line of duty feel. Look, the officer was courteous to you and did not keep your gun from you. It's not like he treated you with any disrespect. He just wants to go home at the end of his shift. Way too many officers have been killed in the line of duty during traffic stops.
 

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Finally
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I have not looked at the rules for Indiana but here in Texas If you are carrying and get pulled over you hand the officer your DL and CHL. The officer is also allowed to disarm you if he has a reason. If you are not carrying then you do not have to show your CHL
 

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I had a similar experience in Ohio. My first ticket in at least 10 years. Got stopped on I-75 North - I thought I was in a 65 mph zone, so I was running at about 74/75. Turns out it was a 55 mph limit. :yikes:

In Ohio, we are required to notify. Pulled over, window down, hands on the wheel and notified I have a license to carry and am armed. He asked where it was, I told him (at that time, Ohio had a "plain-sight' provision for vehicle carry, so it was in an open fanny pack holster - actually if he'd have looked down he couldn't miss it.)

He asked if if it were OK if he held it during the stop. I told him OK, but it's loaded and has one in the pipe.

He leaned in and removed it from the holster, took it back to his car and unloaded it (probably checked for stolen as well). Gave me the ticket, an empty mag and handful of JHP's.

Frankly, I didn't have a problem with them holding my handgun during the stop - but I know a lot of gun folks think it's not necessary.
 

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FOG
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nixdad said:
You feel violated? How do you think the families of officers shot in the line of duty feel. Look, the officer was courteous to you and did not keep your gun from you. It's not like he treated you with any disrespect. He just wants to go home at the end of his shift. Way too many officers have been killed in the line of duty during traffic stops.
With respect, how many by CHL holders? I believe the answer is none. Having spent 30 years as an officer, I do understand officer safety and went to way too many funerals in my time. I still believe in my position above.
 

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In Michigan, we have to hand the cop both DL and CPL, even if we're not carrying. Cop gets to decide whether to take your gun during the stop if you have one. The logic is that if you have a CPL, aren't carrying and don't announce, the cop might find out about the CPL when he runs your license. Then, he might assume you're carrying and not telling him about it. Better to let him know right up front than to let him find out for himself.
 

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Put yourself in the officer's shoes -- I see no problem in what he did. Perhaps a bit overzealous, but we don't know what's in his past that may have triggered (no pun) his protocol. If he was d!ck about it that's another story.
 

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I'm a city cop. I don't have a problem with CHL holders. I'd prefer they didn't handle their firearm when I'm contacting them. Better left in the holster, glovebox, etc. in my opinion. But I don't think it's wrong if an officer wants to hold on to a weapon during a contact and return it to a person afterwards. Tactically I don't think it's the best idea.

While there is no law here in Colorado mandating a CHL holder notify an officer during a contact, I do appreciate it when they do. I'd hate to all of sudden see a firearm and draw down on them because I have no idea why they have a gun. I've only had that happen once when the guy had a pistol half hidden under a blanket next to him. He got removed from his car at gun point. After I found out he lawfully had the gun, we had a little talk.

My 2 cents is that if I was a CHL holder that I'd make a little statement to the effect, "for your safety and mine officer, I have a CHL and I have a firearm with me".
 

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Terrorists suck!
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Discussion Starter #10
My 2 cents is that if I was a CHL holder that I'd make a little statement to the effect, "for your safety and mine officer, I have a CHL and I have a firearm with me".

That sounds like good advice, but I did not think of that first, I was worried about getting ticket. Since I am licensed to carry for life in Indiana and have a squeaky clean record and no traffic tickets, I do not think if he had not seen my permit he would not have asked if I was armed. We do not have to notify the officer ahead of time in this state. If he had asked me to step out of the vehicle, I would have of course told him prior to opening my door.
 

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ORIGINAL DOOF BABE
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trooper113 said:
I don't know about Indiana, but many states require that CHL holders notify an officer immediately upon contact....as in when you hand the officer both your DL and CHL.
Yep - that's the way it is here.
 

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UltraRick said:
Since I am licensed to carry for life in Indiana and have a squeaky clean record and no traffic tickets, I do not think if he had not seen my permit he would not have asked if I was armed.

You're absolutely correct that he probably wouldn't have asked if you were armed if he hadn't seen the permit. But, I know that I appreciate it when a CHL holder tells me he's armed so as not to alarm me. It sets a good tone for the contact. My feeling is you're much more likely to get out of a ticket if the officer is feeling positive about the contact. In fact, I don't think I've ever ticketed a CHL holder for a traffic violation.


Sorry if you felt violated when the officer took your weapon and returned it to you. But look at it from our shoes. Traffic stops are one of the most dangerous things we do for a multitude of reasons. We don't know you and you have a firearm. For all we know you just committed a murder and I've unknowingly stopped you leaving the scene. I have a family I'd like to go home to at the end of my shift. And sometimes very upstanding and law abiding people just lose it. In the last year where I'm at we've had two fatal shootings where people who had led law abiding lives went off the deep end and came at officers with weapons. Just last week an officer was shot 5 times by a 68 year old veteran living in a retirement home. Fortunately the officer will recover.

Sorry to get long winded, but if you're legally in possession of a firearm and have no bad intent, I think that's fine. But sometimes it's impossible to tell what intent people might have and we error on the side of caution. And regardless of what some people think or say, no officer ever wants to have to use his/her firearm in the line of duty.

I hope that makes sense.
 

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FOG
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One of the things officers need to consider is that the person carrying with a CHL is carrying as legally as the officer is. I know it's hard to get that past the LE mentality (including mine), but it's true.
 

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Keep the rubber side down
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trooper113 said:
With respect, how many by CHL holders? I believe the answer is none. Having spent 30 years as an officer, I do understand officer safety and went to way too many funerals in my time. I still believe in my position above.
Hey Trooper,
I'm with you on that. I believe in everyone's 2nd Amendment Rights. Personally, I don't take a gun away from any individual during a traffic stop if they have a license to carry, unless there are other circumstances warranting that action.

Threre are other officers that do take their gun away during a traffic stop. I will not say what they are doing is wrong. If they feel more comfortable conducting their traffic stop that way, then so be it. I believe it is their choice as to how they want to conduct their traffic stop.

Just to mix it up a little, I live in a State with open carry laws. If you were to stop a person and saw their butt of a gun on their hip, how would you approach that? Now you don't have the luxury of a CHL and Knowing that the person is not a felon.
 

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FOG
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nixdad said:
Hey Trooper,
I'm with you on that. I believe in everyone's 2nd Amendment Rights. Personally, I don't take a gun away from any individual during a traffic stop if they have a license to carry, unless there are other circumstances warranting that action.

Threre are other officers that do take their gun away during a traffic stop. I will not say what they are doing is wrong. If they feel more comfortable conducting their traffic stop that way, then so be it. I believe it is their choice as to how they want to conduct their traffic stop.

Just to mix it up a little, I live in a State with open carry laws. If you were to stop a person and saw their butt of a gun on their hip, how would you approach that? Now you don't have the luxury of a CHL and Knowing that the person is not a felon.
Interesting scenario. We didn't have open carry. I'd guess my response would depend upon the totality of the circumstances. Mostly, my answer would be the same, I think...other than paying even more attention to what's going on.
 

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There is NO reason for a law abiding American citizen to have to give an officer their firearm in that type of a situation; especially a CCW permit holder. NO reason whatsoever. A CCW permit holder:

• Has no felony convictions.
• Has never been convicted of domestic violence.
• Has no history of mental illness.
• Has passed a federal background check and has
fingerprints on file with the Authorities.
• Has passed mandatory training in both the use
of a firearm and the applicable law.

How often and how quickly can any LEO determine such of non-permit holders?
 

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kevsett said:
There is NO reason for a law abiding American citizen to have to give an officer their firearm in that type of a situation; especially a CCW permit holder. NO reason whatsoever. A CCW permit holder:

• Has no felony convictions.
• Has never been convicted of domestic violence.
• Has no history of mental illness.
• Has passed a federal background check and has
fingerprints on file with the Authorities.
• Has passed mandatory training in both the use
of a firearm and the applicable law.

How often and how quickly can any LEO determine such of non-permit holders?
Actually, there is a reason.... here in Texas, it's called the LAW.

Taught in all CHL courses, Texas LAW says that a police officer may disarm a CHL holder during a traffic stop if the Officer wants to.

Most Officers don't, but I am certainly not going to start spouting 2nd Amendment Rights on the side of the highway if an Officer decides to disarm me for his own safety. I agreed to abide by current Texas LAW when I applied for the CHL from the state.
 

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It's not the law in Indiana. We have no legal obligation to inform LEOs that we are carrying. Usual disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, did not sleep in a Holiday Inn last night, do not dispense legal advice, and have had many people tell me that I am full of crap.

That said, I've gotten one ticket since having a permit. The LEO apparently didn't get a flag when running my plate because he didn't mention it. I wasn't carrying at the time so I didn't either.
 

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Terrorists suck!
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Discussion Starter #19
Captain - Your CCW does not show up when an officers runs your plates or drivers license,FYI. Where do you live? I live near Louisville, KY in Georgetown, IN
 

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If we gotta wear helmets
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I think given time police officers in a given state will get used to the idea of citizens having cpls and even if they are allowed to take the gun away less and less of them will bother to do it. It just won't feel like it is worth the hassle.

I would expect that police officers are aware of the actual shootings around them so they have an idea who is shooting at them and under what circumstances. I had read years ago (if I remember correctly) that in the previous 25 years exactly one police officer in the country had been shot by a cpl holder. On the other hand (again if I remember correctly), every year a few police officers around the country are saved by cpl holders who happened to be on the scene.

Michigan has had "shall issue" cpls for six years now. These days the officers I run into seem bored with it.
 
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