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void** ppVoid;
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http://media1.Break.com/content/goodcopbadcop.wmv

This video brings up an issue I have for what type of hangun I use for defense/CCW. Motor skills during a high stress situation.

I never plan on having any type of trigger jobs or anything done to weapons (that might increase liability) or might make it easier for an AD/ND. That's just me, not saying it is what everyone should do.

Anyhow, anyone shoot the HK LEM, Sig DAK or Para LDA weapons? If so, what did you like/dislike about them. I'm interested in the HK LEM (either USP or P2000), but have had no opportunity to shoot one.
 

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Premium Member
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That AD had nothing to do with the kind of gun she was carrying, trigger jobs, or really even stress. It was caused either by her lack of training or ignoring the training that she has received. We been teaching on the range for years not to have your finger on the trigger or in the trigger well until you are ready to shoot. There was no excuse for that round to go off.
 

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XLIII
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Nope.
My personal favorites are 1911 patterns, Browning High-Power, H&K P7 and Glock.
Train, train, train.
You should know your weapon(s) like the back of your hand. The number of muffed reloads you see on the range during tactical/combat courses just makes you shake your head. Usually the same guy w/ rust around his rear sight...
 

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Poor training on the agencies part. The finger never touches the trigger until we commit to lethal force. It is not something that can be learned with a few hours on the range every year. It is learned thru repetitive drills and many many hundreds of range hours. It has to be trained into sub conscious action/reaction and unfortunately, most agencies in the US are severely lacking in their firearms training except for their ERT’s
This is a major liability issue for the agency involved if it can be shown that training is lacking. I have seen range masters pass officers and senior command staff that were half blind and couldn’t hit a bull in the ass with a bulldozer if you aimed it for them. Primarily because of the agencies own policy of disarming officers who cannot shoot straight until they pass. This puts us all at risk when we depend on our LEO’s to react properly in this type of situation. This video is in all probability a direct result of these types of deficiencies. I hope the suspect is okay.

:gun:
 

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Vagrant
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Agreed that this is in part a training and experience deficiency. I showed this to my wife who was a county cop and that was the first thing out of her mouth; "Rook-a$$, you only put your finger on the trigger when you intend to shoot, then you go for center mass (not the asphalt)."
 

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fourty three and seven...
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Any way you slice it, she could have killed some one. Why she even pulled the gun is a question in astro-physics. She's a N00bE

Same thing happens to N00be riders........
 

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void** ppVoid;
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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the replies. I know and follow the 4 rules, and train w/ my weapons on the range regularly. Shot the 1911's in the marines, but that was ages ago. Just not my cup of tea.

Yes, she should not have had the finger inside the trigger guard and I see it was a ND. She was stressed and most likely not up to date on training.

Still, I've been thinking about high stress situations and am contemplating getting a LEM, DAK or LDA trigger action as opposed to my current DAO. Plus, my wife who does not really train much, would be able to easily use this type of gun for home protection if she had to.

Besides all the admonitions for training, anyone shoot one of the trigger actions I mentioned? I'd be interested in feedback on them.
 

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i really doubt if shes a noob anymore. Probally back to whatever pre law enforcement job she did before her week as a police officer. I bet she fired and got fired, what do ya think
 

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Knower of Stuff
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The sad truth is most law enforcement agencies do not provide enough weapons training to the average street officer. A lot of agencies do not even allocate enough ammo for an officer to pratice and train.
Most CC license holders who carry most of the time, spend more time at the range training than the average police officer.
It was a good thing the richochet did not hit any one.
 

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I'd stick to a DA revolver if an Ad is a concern. Just seems to me that a revolver requires a bit more "squeeze" than a semi since the cylinderneeds to move as well as the hammer.
 

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void** ppVoid;
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Discussion Starter #11
Maxim30cal said:
I'd stick to a DA revolver if an Ad is a concern. Just seems to me that a revolver requires a bit more "squeeze" than a semi since the cylinderneeds to move as well as the hammer.
I am keeping DA revolver and a and a DA 9mm for quick access for my wife. Both with a long heavy trigger pull. Thing is, she does not really want to train and the best I can come up with is a DAO type of gun for her to use.

Since I am upgrading my collection, I want to have the same manual of arms on all the guns (so wife does not have to think or worry about safeties, decockers, different trigger pull weights, i.e., DA/SA, etc..). I'm looking for something w/ a better trigger pull for myself, but similar characteristics if my wife ever has to pick it up.

That is why I was thinking about the LDA, DAK or LEM triggers. I just picked up a HK P2000 in 40 S&W w/ the LEM trigger. I should get it out to the range next week.

Thanks for the reply.
 

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FLHRI-Tom said:
I am keeping DA revolver and a and a DA 9mm for quick access for my wife. Both with a long heavy trigger pull. Thing is, she does not really want to train and the best I can come up with is a DAO type of gun for her to use.

Since I am upgrading my collection, I want to have the same manual of arms on all the guns (so wife does not have to think or worry about safeties, decockers, different trigger pull weights, i.e., DA/SA, etc..). I'm looking for something w/ a better trigger pull for myself, but similar characteristics if my wife ever has to pick it up.

That is why I was thinking about the LDA, DAK or LEM triggers. I just picked up a HK P2000 in 40 S&W w/ the LEM trigger. I should get it out to the range next week.

Thanks for the reply.

Sigs have a very nice trigger pull ,,, and alot used ones are floating around as LEO turn in pistols .....I picked up a 226 9mm high cap for 350 bucks a couple years ago ....
Lots of dept are going to 40 cal I think Texas DPS switched from a traditional 226 357 semi auto loaders to DAO sigs ,,,,rat
 

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It's all about training and where did this gal get her's?

I'm working right now with about a dozen kids that never put their finger on the trigger until they are ready to shoot no matter if it's a shotgun, rifle, or pistol. I haven't had to remind them since their first couple of times at the range and most of them will remind the new kids before I can get my mouth open.

We start out SA when teaching pistol and use a heavy trigger.
 

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void** ppVoid;
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Discussion Starter #14
ratt said:
Sigs have a very nice trigger pull ,,, and alot used ones are floating around as LEO turn in pistols .....I picked up a 226 9mm high cap for 350 bucks a couple years ago ....
Lots of dept are going to 40 cal I think Texas DPS switched from a traditional 226 357 semi auto loaders to DAO sigs ,,,,rat
I looked at the Sigs and the DAk trigger. I decided on the HK. Probably good with either one.
 

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void** ppVoid;
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Discussion Starter #15
teegee said:
It's all about training and where did this gal get her's?

I'm working right now with about a dozen kids that never put their finger on the trigger until they are ready to shoot no matter if it's a shotgun, rifle, or pistol. I haven't had to remind them since their first couple of times at the range and most of them will remind the new kids before I can get my mouth open.

We start out SA when teaching pistol and use a heavy trigger.
About training. She grew up on a farm and was familiar w/ firearms from what she said. After handling some of my UNLOADED pistols, it is apparent that she did not have safety training, nevertheless training on how to fire a weapon.

For a Christmas gift to me, she is going to take some NRA classes (basic pistol, personal protection and home firearms safety). I will be joining her so she does not feel alone on this. (Even though I've had training/practice in the Marines, hunter safety, and shooting w/ LEO on many occasions). Bought her a membership to the rod and gun club I belong to, but have not taken her there yet. I want to wait until she gets at least the basic pistol class under her belt.

The issue is that she is not into shooting and does not think she would ever need to shoot in self defense. My minimum goal is to get her proper training and get her out periodically to the range. I cannot be w/ her 100% or the time.

From that point, I want easy to handle/fire/manipulate firearms available to her for SD if need be.

Any thoughts?
 

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Letting someone else teach her is a good idea. Being there with her is a great idea. If she is the typical wife she will listen to a stranger better than you and if you're the typical husband you won't be as patient with her as you would be with others. I don't think we mean to be that way it's just the way we are. I went with my son to Basic shotgun, rifle and pistol and I was already an instructor. I kept quiet, had a great time and as usual, learned something new.

She might get to the range and find that she enjoys it. What you will really hate is if she takes up one of the disciplines and starts kicking your butt, then laughing at you. My son is doing that to me now.

Another consideration is the Women on Target programs. It's for women only and they seem to have a great time. There is always someone at the Basic Course (any course for that matter) that has to prove they know everything. It's always seems to be a guy. In a women only program they seem to have more fun with less stress.

Even if she hates it the basic courses and quarterly practice could save a life.

For occasional shooters I would go with a revolver, weight not being that important since we already know what the intended use is.
 

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void** ppVoid;
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Discussion Starter #17
teegee said:
Letting someone else teach her is a good idea. Being there with her is a great idea. If she is the typical wife she will listen to a stranger better than you and if you're the typical husband you won't be as patient with her as you would be with others. I don't think we mean to be that way it's just the way we are. I went with my son to Basic shotgun, rifle and pistol and I was already an instructor. I kept quiet, had a great time and as usual, learned something new.
Exactly why I wanted someone else to teach her. Sounds like you spent time at my house observing.

teegee said:
She might get to the range and find that she enjoys it. What you will really hate is if she takes up one of the disciplines and starts kicking your butt, then laughing at you. My son is doing that to me now.

Another consideration is the Women on Target programs. It's for women only and they seem to have a great time. There is always someone at the Basic Course (any course for that matter) that has to prove they know everything. It's always seems to be a guy. In a women only program they seem to have more fun with less stress.
Good points. I was looking for a female NRA instructor close by, but did not find any. The good thing I found was a NRA instructor who would give instructions as needed. No group setting. Just my wife, myself and another couple if possible. I plan on keeping my mouth shut during the course and not being the "know it all." My main goal is for her to learn and secondarily for me to pick up anything I'm not aware of.

teegee said:
Even if she hates it the basic courses and quarterly practice could save a life.
I'm hoping to never find out, but I want her prepared. I think I could get her to the range 4X a year after the initial training.

teegee said:
For occasional shooters I would go with a revolver, weight not being that important since we already know what the intended use is.
[/QUOTE]

I've got a S&W 642 fully concealed hammer (38 special, 5 shot) ordered for her to use. Once she gets out and shoots, I've got a friend who has a 686 I'm hoping she will try. Then onto a paid range to rent different guns so she could pick out something she likes.

If she doesn't like the 642, I can use that for a pocket gun and replace the kel-tec P3AT.

Thanks for your reply. What do you think about the 642 and her trying other revolvers?
 

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FLHRI-Tom said:
Thanks for your reply. What do you think about the 642 and her trying other revolvers?
I think I lost a post somewhere.

Get her to shoot everything possible. I just hope she gets the bug and digs deep into your toy budget.
 

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void** ppVoid;
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Discussion Starter #19
teegee said:
I think I lost a post somewhere.

Get her to shoot everything possible. I just hope she gets the bug and digs deep into your toy budget.
I mentioned the 642 at the end of my last post. I hope she gets the bug too.

Again, thanks for all your help.
 

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The video is around 5 years old. It was Las Vegas, NV. PD. Suspect and male cop got hit with splatter from the round. Minor injuries. Unknown if she is still employed there.
 
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