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"You got da welfare burger, we got M'Donalds!"
 

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Hey what are you talkin about? Cuban medical facilities are top of the line for those that can afford it... oh wait I though it was supposed to be free? Oh it's only free for the rich Cubans....? I get it now.....

Moorer is a joke.....
 

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Shaw_2112 said:
Hey what are you talkin about? Cuban medical facilities are top of the line for those that can afford it... oh wait I though it was supposed to be free? Oh it's only free for the rich Cubans....? I get it now.....

Moorer is a joke.....
Yeah - pretty much like here.
Money talks - lack of?? well, most often does without and dies.

Kinda funny to me that all the people making the decisions about health care for the poor, children, seniors, and our veterans are themselves either fully covered through a specialty govt funded plan themselves (house, congress, administration - they get the very best for life at no cost, and they don't pay FICA towards medicare like the rest of us) or they make plenty of money to easily afford private health care (the money walks flavor)

I have plenty of $$ to afford private health care for me and all my family (and I consider myself very privileged) - so I'm not looking for a handout.

But I honestly believe every AMERICAN CITIZEN should be ENTITLED to quality medical care. I don't care how you do it - govt sponsored, socialized, medical-govt partnerships (cutting out the insurance profits would reclaim 50% from an industry that adds little to our health care).

Go ahead and look for every reason why 'other countries' systems aren't working.
At least many of them are trying something. For ALL their citizens.

You know ours isn't working for a very large percentage of our citizens?
Even if we fail - not trying? that's the really sad part.
Americans - World leaders in innovations?
Not as long as you simply criticize and don't do anything tangible.

Ohhh - btw - this is where pukes usually say "well if you don't like it here just move there". Well - I DO like it here, because Americans stand for change, and we stand up for the downtrodden. And like many of our forefathers, who also fought for ALL Americans, I'll choose to stand up for my beliefs and the well being of all our citizens.

(can you hear the patriotic music in the background?? I can)
 

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Perhaps the only system of socialiced medicine still working very well (with a lot of problems) is Spain National System , built by the old dictator mr. Franco a friend of Mussoliny and very far from Mr. Moore

:roflback:
 

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toProFile said:
I have plenty of $$ to afford private health care for me and all my family (and I consider myself very privileged) - so I'm not looking for a handout.

But I honestly believe every AMERICAN CITIZEN should be ENTITLED to quality medical care. I don't care how you do it -

OK, since you seem to be able to afford it we will tax you an additional $10,000 per year to assist those who are not privileged enough to have insurance.
 

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cwo2lt said:
OK, since you seem to be able to afford it we will tax you an additional $10,000 per year to assist those who are not privileged enough to have insurance.
I have to kinda agree with this assumption.
Providing all 300 million Americans (plus paying for the additional 20 - 30 million illegal aliens) health care is something that will cost hundreds of billions of dollars per year.

Yeah, I'm thankful that I can afford health care for me & my family, but that doesn't mean that I can afford my health care costs being doubled to support those 'downtrodden.' Especially when it was their own feet (i.e. the piiss-poor choices they made in life over the past 20 years [i.e. spitting out kids when they could not afford it, not seek higher education to hone their skill and make themselves marketable in the global economy) which 'trodden them down.'

Funny thing, it seems this push for universal health care is being driven by the 'baby boomer' generation. Ya know, the ones that smoked dope & screwed around in the 1960's, disco-ed and snorted coke in the 1970's, said "me, me, me" with instant gratification in the 1980's and 1990's, and then woke up in the 21st century with the realization that they didn't plan for their retirement years, and their health is shot to shiit because of all the chemicals they ingested into their bodies over the past 30 or so years.
:hmmm:
 

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toProFile said:
Yeah - pretty much like here.
Money talks - lack of?? well, most often does without and dies.

Kinda funny to me that all the people making the decisions about health care for the poor, children, seniors, and our veterans are themselves either fully covered through a specialty govt funded plan themselves (house, congress, administration - they get the very best for life at no cost, and they don't pay FICA towards medicare like the rest of us) or they make plenty of money to easily afford private health care (the money walks flavor)

I have plenty of $$ to afford private health care for me and all my family (and I consider myself very privileged) - so I'm not looking for a handout.

But I honestly believe every AMERICAN CITIZEN should be ENTITLED to quality medical care. I don't care how you do it - govt sponsored, socialized, medical-govt partnerships (cutting out the insurance profits would reclaim 50% from an industry that adds little to our health care).

Go ahead and look for every reason why 'other countries' systems aren't working.
At least many of them are trying something. For ALL their citizens.

You know ours isn't working for a very large percentage of our citizens?
Even if we fail - not trying? that's the really sad part.
Americans - World leaders in innovations?
Not as long as you simply criticize and don't do anything tangible.

Ohhh - btw - this is where pukes usually say "well if you don't like it here just move there". Well - I DO like it here, because Americans stand for change, and we stand up for the downtrodden. And like many of our forefathers, who also fought for ALL Americans, I'll choose to stand up for my beliefs and the well being of all our citizens.

(can you hear the patriotic music in the background?? I can)
I got a solution for you.

Everyone that wants socialized healthcare can volunteer to have thier taxes raised to pay for it. Those of us who don't want it can opt out. Fair?

The gov't can't even fix Social Security, do you really think they manage the healthcare system for 300 million people?? You have a lot more faith than I do....
 

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no insurance it often self induced!!!

We tried a little experiment in Florida in one of our companies. Roofers it should be said are not the most thoughtful bunch.

We offered to insure our employees on the following basis. To put the employee AND their family on our plan is a $1,000 a month which included $10 prescriptions, $10 office visits and zero deductible in the Er or hospital. good plan. OK so far.

We offered to pay 1/2 ($500 a month) and they pay 1/2 $500 a month. Now these guys make from $12 an hour to about $20 an hour so they are in middle income. Guess hoe many optioned for our plan? None stating they didn't wanting us f-ing with their money.

Part deux: We then offered to pay $800 a month and they would only pay $200 a month and STILL were met with resistance.

In the mean time many of these guys are driving new $50,000 pick ups.

Now the stupid people in Washington would have you thinking these are poor people that can't have insurance and feel the need to save them from


THEMSELVES

I may to prove a point, change the plan to us paying $900 and them paying only $100 just to prove a point.

Several approached us with the idea of us giving them the $500 a month or $800 a month and they would go out and buy their own insurance......they promised they would!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right they'd go out and buy another truck or a bike!

I have one foreman who makes over $50K a year that given the choice to pay for his kids dentist work or buy a new tire for his bike had no problem making that choice...................the tire.

Point being many people are just dregs and only big brother can protect them from being dregs.

Rant off!
 

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$12.00 an hr. to work in that repressive heat? Dang, $10.00 an hr, at an air conditioned Mickey D's don't sound too bad.:roflback: I think dubya's idea bout flippin burgers being a manufacturing job may be on to something. won't get heat stroke, less strain on the system.
 

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toProFile said:
Yeah - pretty much like here.
Money talks - lack of?? well, most often does without and dies.

Kinda funny to me that all the people making the decisions about health care for the poor, children, seniors, and our veterans are themselves either fully covered through a specialty govt funded plan themselves (house, congress, administration - they get the very best for life at no cost, and they don't pay FICA towards medicare like the rest of us) or they make plenty of money to easily afford private health care (the money walks flavor)

I have plenty of $$ to afford private health care for me and all my family (and I consider myself very privileged) - so I'm not looking for a handout.

But I honestly believe every AMERICAN CITIZEN should be ENTITLED to quality medical care. I don't care how you do it - govt sponsored, socialized, medical-govt partnerships (cutting out the insurance profits would reclaim 50% from an industry that adds little to our health care).

Go ahead and look for every reason why 'other countries' systems aren't working.
At least many of them are trying something. For ALL their citizens.

You know ours isn't working for a very large percentage of our citizens?
Even if we fail - not trying? that's the really sad part.
Americans - World leaders in innovations?
Not as long as you simply criticize and don't do anything tangible.

Ohhh - btw - this is where pukes usually say "well if you don't like it here just move there". Well - I DO like it here, because Americans stand for change, and we stand up for the downtrodden. And like many of our forefathers, who also fought for ALL Americans, I'll choose to stand up for my beliefs and the well being of all our citizens.

(can you hear the patriotic music in the background?? I can)
If EVERY AMERICAN would send their kid to FREE PUBLIC school to learn to read and write and get a job we might have a higher rate of covered members of society. But some people want to throw money down the hole called school and then throw money down the hole called health care. Well, I say let them spend their money and let me spend my money. That's fair.
 

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The unintended consequences of socialized medicine

toProFile
Virtually every developed country in the world (including the US) has some form of socialized medicine (ie: run by the government). Everybody has access to basic care - ie: if you break an arm, somebody will patch you up whether or not you can pay. However, you may not get a heart transplant if you can't pay.

The difference in Canada is that we are not permitted to seek care outside the gov't run system other than going out of the country. Why? The philosophy is that everybody should have equal access to health care - nobody should be able to "jump the line". That does not mean that the system provides the best care to everyone equaly but in reality the health $ are spread out so everyone is entitled to receive mediocre care and not allowed to seek excellent care - even if they want to pay for it themselves.

This "free" health care has to be paid for somehow. How about a 43% marginal tax rate for all income over $100K? How about paying 14% sales tax on everything you buy with what you have left over after income tax? After we pay for our "free" health care then we get to wait up to 9 months to a year to see some specialists. Surgery of any type - be prepared to wait for months . . . for the consutation. Then hopefully you can be scedualed for surgery before you die.

You would prefer government bureaucrats determine how many hours of surgery room time each surgeon gets weekly (I have heard some are down to 2 or 3 hours per week) to control costs? Or maybe prefer the bureaucrats determine what proceedures you will be eligible to receive?

Our emergency rooms are clogged with overdosed drug addicts and people with owies needing a bandaid. If you happen to truly need emergency care, you may be waiting for hours on the hallway floor. I had one ambulance driver tell me that it isn't unusual for ambulances to be lined up for hours waiting to get their passengers into emergency - in some cases, they have been in line so long that they did shift changes of the drivers while in line. Oh, and you better hope you don't need an ambulance when they are all lined up, you may well be SOL.

I guess the bottom line is that if you think the government will deliver care to everybody more efficiently than you have now, you will be saddly mistaken. You may want to think carefully about what you want because you may well get it and it may not be the nirvana you hoped for.


ps - As an aside, the costs of your medical care are not pushed up because of insurance companies (their margins just aren't that great) but are massivly impacted by your out of control legal system - generating insane judgements out of proportion to the errors involved. That cost is ultimately born by you the patient.​
 

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RexBuck said:
toProFile
Virtually every developed country in the world (including the US) has some form of socialized medicine (ie: run by the government). Everybody has access to basic care - ie: if you break an arm, somebody will patch you up whether or not you can pay. However, you may not get a heart transplant if you can't pay.

The difference in Canada is that we are not permitted to seek care outside the gov't run system other than going out of the country. Why? The philosophy is that everybody should have equal access to health care - nobody should be able to "jump the line". That does not mean that the system provides the best care to everyone equaly but in reality the health $ are spread out so everyone is entitled to receive mediocre care and not allowed to seek excellent care - even if they want to pay for it themselves.

This "free" health care has to be paid for somehow. How about a 43% marginal tax rate for all income over $100K? How about paying 14% sales tax on everything you buy with what you have left over after income tax? After we pay for our "free" health care then we get to wait up to 9 months to a year to see some specialists. Surgery of any type - be prepared to wait for months . . . for the consutation. Then hopefully you can be scedualed for surgery before you die.

You would prefer government bureaucrats determine how many hours of surgery room time each surgeon gets weekly (I have heard some are down to 2 or 3 hours per week) to control costs? Or maybe prefer the bureaucrats determine what proceedures you will be eligible to receive?

Our emergency rooms are clogged with overdosed drug addicts and people with owies needing a bandaid. If you happen to truly need emergency care, you may be waiting for hours on the hallway floor. I had one ambulance driver tell me that it isn't unusual for ambulances to be lined up for hours waiting to get their passengers into emergency - in some cases, they have been in line so long that they did shift changes of the drivers while in line. Oh, and you better hope you don't need an ambulance when they are all lined up, you may well be SOL.

I guess the bottom line is that if you think the government will deliver care to everybody more efficiently than you have now, you will be saddly mistaken. You may want to think carefully about what you want because you may well get it and it may not be the nirvana you hoped for.


ps - As an aside, the costs of your medical care are not pushed up because of insurance companies (their margins just aren't that great) but are massivly impacted by your out of control legal system - generating insane judgements out of proportion to the errors involved. That cost is ultimately born by you the patient.​
Glad to hear from someone who has experienced "free healthcare", thanks for your input!
 

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RexBuck said:
toProFile
Virtually every developed country in the world (including the US) has some form of socialized medicine (ie: run by the government). Everybody has access to basic care - ie: if you break an arm, somebody will patch you up whether or not you can pay. However, you may not get a heart transplant if you can't pay.

The difference in Canada is that we are not permitted to seek care outside the gov't run system other than going out of the country. Why? The philosophy is that everybody should have equal access to health care - nobody should be able to "jump the line". That does not mean that the system provides the best care to everyone equaly but in reality the health $ are spread out so everyone is entitled to receive mediocre care and not allowed to seek excellent care - even if they want to pay for it themselves.

This "free" health care has to be paid for somehow. How about a 43% marginal tax rate for all income over $100K? How about paying 14% sales tax on everything you buy with what you have left over after income tax? After we pay for our "free" health care then we get to wait up to 9 months to a year to see some specialists. Surgery of any type - be prepared to wait for months . . . for the consutation. Then hopefully you can be scedualed for surgery before you die.

You would prefer government bureaucrats determine how many hours of surgery room time each surgeon gets weekly (I have heard some are down to 2 or 3 hours per week) to control costs? Or maybe prefer the bureaucrats determine what proceedures you will be eligible to receive?

Our emergency rooms are clogged with overdosed drug addicts and people with owies needing a bandaid. If you happen to truly need emergency care, you may be waiting for hours on the hallway floor. I had one ambulance driver tell me that it isn't unusual for ambulances to be lined up for hours waiting to get their passengers into emergency - in some cases, they have been in line so long that they did shift changes of the drivers while in line. Oh, and you better hope you don't need an ambulance when they are all lined up, you may well be SOL.

I guess the bottom line is that if you think the government will deliver care to everybody more efficiently than you have now, you will be saddly mistaken. You may want to think carefully about what you want because you may well get it and it may not be the nirvana you hoped for.


ps - As an aside, the costs of your medical care are not pushed up because of insurance companies (their margins just aren't that great) but are massivly impacted by your out of control legal system - generating insane judgements out of proportion to the errors involved. That cost is ultimately born by you the patient.​
Thanks for the post. This is precisely why I do not want socialized medicine in the USA.
 

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Good commentary. And, yes, you are correct. It is our legal system (judges and juries) and lawyers like Presidential candidate John Edwards that make our health care costs rise like they have done.
 

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Shaw_2112 said:
I got a solution for you.

Everyone that wants socialized healthcare can volunteer to have thier taxes raised to pay for it. Those of us who don't want it can opt out. Fair?

The gov't can't even fix Social Security, do you really think they manage the healthcare system for 300 million people?? You have a lot more faith than I do....

I'm fine with that if we millions of Americans the never supported this "war on terror" could get reimbersed the billions already spent. Everyone that supported and still supports that can have their taxes raised to pay for that. Sounds fair to me.

There's the solution! Only pay for what you use. Kinda like road tolls. If you voted for guy A then your taxes get raised for whatever guy A spends money on.
 
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