Snythetic Oil
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synthetic oil
Although I do not yet use synthetic on my bike, my new 2002 FLHT due in Jan will live on it. I have used it extensively in other motors. The flat spot issue is an urban rumor. Some benefits are cooler running, high coaking temperatures, better film adhesion and low moisture suspension. Down fall, has a tendency to seep, and HD needs no help here, and cost. On an older engine, it tends to clean and remove crevice carbon, seemingly causing older engins to leak. The leak was already there, just pluged with gunk. Many high performance engines recommend and are factory supplied with synthetic. Some issues that have given syn oil a bad rep is allowing extended service periods with syn oil. Although synthetic oils have different moisture and acid retention mechanisms then petroleum base, it still, in my opinion, benefits from often changes. If you add the cost, over the live of your sled, of changing the oil every 2k miles, even at $4 quart, you will see its value. On my family cage, dropping the oil pan after 110,000 miles to repair road damage, the cylinders still have clear honing marks, compression at 7 pounds between highest and lowest, still runs like new and has never had a mechanical problem.
Although I do not yet use synthetic on my bike, my new 2002 FLHT due in Jan will live on it. I have used it extensively in other motors. The flat spot issue is an urban rumor. Some benefits are cooler running, high coaking temperatures, better film adhesion and low moisture suspension. Down fall, has a tendency to seep, and HD needs no help here, and cost. On an older engine, it tends to clean and remove crevice carbon, seemingly causing older engins to leak. The leak was already there, just pluged with gunk. Many high performance engines recommend and are factory supplied with synthetic. Some issues that have given syn oil a bad rep is allowing extended service periods with syn oil. Although synthetic oils have different moisture and acid retention mechanisms then petroleum base, it still, in my opinion, benefits from often changes. If you add the cost, over the live of your sled, of changing the oil every 2k miles, even at $4 quart, you will see its value. On my family cage, dropping the oil pan after 110,000 miles to repair road damage, the cylinders still have clear honing marks, compression at 7 pounds between highest and lowest, still runs like new and has never had a mechanical problem.
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I find that 20W50 non synthetic keeps my hair looking good even without a helmet...
Ride Free and Topless
Ape
Ride Free and Topless
Ape
I've been using Mobil 1 in all my cars for years and was considering it for my V-Twin.... So I did a study on Oils... and was surprised to discover that the Mobil 1 would work but, has too much af a general application to meet all the requirements set-forth by Harley Oils. Harley claims to have the necessary additives,specs and so on for the best protection of their engines..... Mobil 1 and other systhetics have not developed specific oils that will help protect the seals and gaskets... They are too general of an application.. Now I know there are systhetics out there that claim they can be as good or better the Pet Oils but, I'm still sceptical and will stick with the proven Harley oil for the time being... Just my .02....
I've heard that "Flat Spot" rumor before. I guess you've got to ask yourself the question...what would make flat spots. Only thing I can
think of would be that the oil is so good that the bearing is not turning!
If that was the case:
1. If the oil is so good that there's no friction to turn the bearing, then there is no friction to wear in a flat spot!
2. If the oil is so good that there's no friction to turn the bearing, a flat
spot may occur due to constant pounding on one side of the bearing.
After that discourse, ask yourself, if the oil so good that bearings don't turn. I'd like to see some evidence of that!
Cheers and Rumbles
Al
think of would be that the oil is so good that the bearing is not turning!
If that was the case:
1. If the oil is so good that there's no friction to turn the bearing, then there is no friction to wear in a flat spot!
2. If the oil is so good that there's no friction to turn the bearing, a flat
spot may occur due to constant pounding on one side of the bearing.
After that discourse, ask yourself, if the oil so good that bearings don't turn. I'd like to see some evidence of that!
Cheers and Rumbles
Al
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86 Posts
My newest HD is a 1999 FXDS and I would like to run Mobile 1 in it, but my local wrench advised me against it, saying that here in Washington State it is too cool for this type of oil even in a TC. He said every time he changes synthetic oil out of a bike it is gray foam and full of bubbles. I don't know who is right. I've had great luck with dinosaur oil so there appears to be no compelling reason to switch to the synthetic stuff, and dino oil is a lot cheaper. I do my own oil changes, and dino oil always comes out dark not foamy. Anyone ever notice this with synthetic oil?
Hog oil
I also run the Mobil 1 Syn 20w50 (V twin) & I agree that it's too expensive at 7 bucks per quart! Last oil change I put in the 15w50 oil(still Mobil1) About 3.50 a quart . I've got many friends where I work who have Hogs & almost every one of them runs synthetic of one brand or another ! I believe the myths about the flat spotted bearings are just that MYTH !
I also run the Mobil 1 Syn 20w50 (V twin) & I agree that it's too expensive at 7 bucks per quart! Last oil change I put in the 15w50 oil(still Mobil1) About 3.50 a quart
. I've got many friends where I work who have Hogs & almost every one of them runs synthetic of one brand or another ! I believe the myths about the flat spotted bearings are just that MYTH !Synthetic is the only way to go in any Harley.
When extreme overheating situations exist, oxidation is rampant. The only cure for oxidation is changing the oil. Extreme heat requires changing your oil more frequently. For a fossil oil, 250 Fahrenheit is the figure to remember and for synthetics allow for around 300 before you get worried about oxidation.
A little information:
http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/oilreport.html
"Mobil 1 motorcycle oil: is it worth buying?The viscosity of this bike oil has been changed from Mobil 1's standard 15W-50 to 20W-50. This just happens to be what Harley specs for their bikes. If you smell a marketing ploy here, you may want to trust your nose. The additive package appears the same amongst all the 50 weight Mobil 1 oils."
Keep
When extreme overheating situations exist, oxidation is rampant. The only cure for oxidation is changing the oil. Extreme heat requires changing your oil more frequently. For a fossil oil, 250 Fahrenheit is the figure to remember and for synthetics allow for around 300 before you get worried about oxidation.
A little information:
http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/oilreport.html
"Mobil 1 motorcycle oil: is it worth buying?The viscosity of this bike oil has been changed from Mobil 1's standard 15W-50 to 20W-50. This just happens to be what Harley specs for their bikes. If you smell a marketing ploy here, you may want to trust your nose. The additive package appears the same amongst all the 50 weight Mobil 1 oils."
Keep
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17 Posts
Amsoil Synthetic
Hi Guys, I have been using Amsoil Synthetic oil in all of my cars, trucks (even diesels) and my motorcycles since 1971 and have never experienced any type of engine failure. I rebuild Harley Davidson motors as my second job, and also race them and the only oil that go's into them is Amsoil 20/50. I'm not going to sit here and argue which synthetic oil is better that another so just do some research on synthetic verse petro. oil and you will see how superior the synthetic is. Just remember one thing, FILTER your oil down to 2-5 microns if you can, particles in your oil destroy an engine faster than anything else.
Hi Guys, I have been using Amsoil Synthetic oil in all of my cars, trucks (even diesels) and my motorcycles since 1971 and have never experienced any type of engine failure. I rebuild Harley Davidson motors as my second job, and also race them and the only oil that go's into them is Amsoil 20/50. I'm not going to sit here and argue which synthetic oil is better that another so just do some research on synthetic verse petro. oil and you will see how superior the synthetic is. Just remember one thing, FILTER your oil down to 2-5 microns if you can, particles in your oil destroy an engine faster than anything else.
At what point to change...?
Along the lines of MattD's post, a good filter recom. would be cool, as well as oppinions on WHEN to change over to synthetic. At what point do you consider a Twin Cam "broken in" enough to start using synthetic oils, or can you just put them in anytime? I have heard different people say different things. Any thoughts on this...?
Along the lines of MattD's post, a good filter recom. would be cool, as well as oppinions on WHEN to change over to synthetic. At what point do you consider a Twin Cam "broken in" enough to start using synthetic oils, or can you just put them in anytime? I have heard different people say different things. Any thoughts on this...?
synthetic oil change out
The one area that has caused synthetic oil to cause some difficulties is frequency of change out. Many feel that the synthetic can last much longer then ‘dyno’ oils, and this can cause obvious issues. The synthetic's manufactures are somewhat to blame here trying to justify the additional cost to the ‘home mechanic’ Synthetic oils, changed at standard intervals is, IMHO, the only way to go.
The one area that has caused synthetic oil to cause some difficulties is frequency of change out. Many feel that the synthetic can last much longer then ‘dyno’ oils, and this can cause obvious issues. The synthetic's manufactures are somewhat to blame here trying to justify the additional cost to the ‘home mechanic’ Synthetic oils, changed at standard intervals is, IMHO, the only way to go.
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17 Posts
Oil Filters
MattD, In order to filter oil down to 2-5 microns you need to run a bypass oil filter system. You see a normal hi flow oil filter like the one that is on all cars, trucks, and motorcycles cannot filter that small. Stock filters need to flow oil fast enough to supply the engine with enough oil for it's needs so it cannot be to restrictive. So the filter is a compromise. In order to filter smaller you need to run the stock filter and a bypass filter. You tap off of the motor or the oil line and filter a small amount of oil at a time. It may take 5 to 15 minutes to filter all of the oil in a system. The larger the oil tank the longer it takes. The oil must pass very slowly through the bypass system and in return you take out all the particles that can wear out the motor. If you want to know more about these systems go to the Amsoil web site. Thanks for the question.
MattD, In order to filter oil down to 2-5 microns you need to run a bypass oil filter system. You see a normal hi flow oil filter like the one that is on all cars, trucks, and motorcycles cannot filter that small. Stock filters need to flow oil fast enough to supply the engine with enough oil for it's needs so it cannot be to restrictive. So the filter is a compromise. In order to filter smaller you need to run the stock filter and a bypass filter. You tap off of the motor or the oil line and filter a small amount of oil at a time. It may take 5 to 15 minutes to filter all of the oil in a system. The larger the oil tank the longer it takes. The oil must pass very slowly through the bypass system and in return you take out all the particles that can wear out the motor. If you want to know more about these systems go to the Amsoil web site. Thanks for the question.
MOR PWR, Now you have me thinking
MOR PWR,
Thanks for the reply.
I have the oil cooler on the '02 Deuce so the two lines there could provide a "tap". Is there a bypass system small enough to "hide" somewhere. If I can't hide it I gotta chrome it.
Having a recommendation on when to swtich to synthetic after breaking in was also a good question. Any idea?
Thanks again,
Matt
MOR PWR,
Thanks for the reply.
I have the oil cooler on the '02 Deuce so the two lines there could provide a "tap". Is there a bypass system small enough to "hide" somewhere. If I can't hide it I gotta chrome it.
Having a recommendation on when to swtich to synthetic after breaking in was also a good question. Any idea?
Thanks again,
Matt
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