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Does anybody know what the difference is in terms of power,torque,sound between slipons with crossover on stock exhaust and 2n2 cs pipes without crossover.Where would the difference be?Low end torque,high end hp?Would the difference be very noticeable? Thanks kudumaned.
 

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kudumaned said:
Does anybody know what the difference is in terms of power,torque,sound between slipons with crossover on stock exhaust and 2n2 cs pipes without crossover.Where would the difference be?Low end torque,high end hp?Would the difference be very noticeable? Thanks kudumaned.
You need the crossover if you want to salvage some of the low and mid range torque. Cycle Shack slipons with your stock headpipes will work ok, but for the best performance (aka torque), a 2-1 system will outperform anything else. With either choice, the exhaust will flow more smoothly out of the engine since the exhaust pulse from one pipe helps pull the burnt gases out of the other head. This is why more "true dual" exhausts run rougher at low rpms.

Other good 2-2 choices are the V&H Straightshots and Python III systems.

Most importantly, if you are going to change the exhaust in any way, you need to balance the system by putting on a high flow air cleaner with a K&N filter. After that, it is imperative that you have the bike properly dyno-tuned. This MUST be done when making changes to your engine. Just doing these three things can give you 10+% more torque than stock. Next step... I'd start looking for a better cam. Have fun! :)
 

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I have stage 1 download, and SE AC.

I tried cycle shack full exhaust. ( no crossover ) noticed loss of low end power. too loud for my ears.

then changed back to stock header pipe with SE torque slip ons. ( wanted something not as loud ) and gained low end power. over all I may of lost some power due to the SE torque slip ons being more restrictive. but I own a Harley not a rice rocket so how much different is it really. I'm very happy with it now. stage 1 dealer reflash worked fine for me.

good luck and ride safe.
 

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kudumaned said:
Does anybody know what the difference is in terms of power,torque,sound between slipons with crossover on stock exhaust and 2n2 cs pipes without crossover.Where would the difference be?Low end torque,high end hp?Would the difference be very noticeable? Thanks kudumaned.
I gained hp and tq with cycleshack 2into 2 slach cuts over thunderheader...stayed with thunderheader to keep the noise out of my ear..no dip on dyno with shacks....slash cuts make the most power over tapered
 

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plasterhead said:
I gained hp and tq with cycleshack 2into 2 slach cuts over thunderheader...stayed with thunderheader to keep the noise out of my ear..no dip on dyno with shacks....slash cuts make the most power over tapered
I imagine you gained the most at higher (3000+) engine speeds. The 2-1 move the most torque to lower RPMs, which is more effective for a street bike. The Cycle Shack pipes are great, but still not as good at low RPM as some.
 

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ToddM said:
I imagine you gained the most at higher (3000+) engine speeds. The 2-1 move the most torque to lower RPMs, which is more effective for a street bike. The Cycle Shack pipes are great, but still not as good at low RPM as some.
dyno started at 2500 rpm..shacks pull more tq on the bottom all the way up over the thunderheader...what good is 3000rpm and below power.... stop and go traffic?,,,,highway speed..speed limit your close to 3000 rpm....im talking street power....the shacks are hard to beat...they finish in the top two or three in dyno wars all the time in testing pipes...been there done that...I like the 2 into 1 myself..but 2into 1 will not always give you the most low end stret power....seen bikes lose big time with 2 into 1 pipes....there all different...test was on 80 ci close to 10.5 branch heads
 

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plasterhead said:
dyno started at 2500 rpm..shacks pull more tq on the bottom all the way up over the thunderheader...what good is 3000rpm and below power.... stop and go traffic?,,,,highway speed..speed limit your close to 3000 rpm....im talking street power....the shacks are hard to beat...they finish in the top two or three in dyno wars all the time in testing pipes...been there done that...I like the 2 into 1 myself..but 2into 1 will not always give you the most low end stret power....seen bikes lose big time with 2 into 1 pipes....there all different...test was on 80 ci close to 10.5 branch heads
Don't forget... dyno shootout results depend as much on the experience of the tuner, as the components used to build the engine. You could spend a fortune using the very highest rated exhaust, but it won't run worth a crap if the tuner doesn't know what he's doing.

As an example of the Pro-Pipe.... on my Dyna (80 inch, ported and shaved heads, EV27 cam, S&S Super E, Dyna 2000i ignition w. custom curve, etc.), I tried 7 different sets (not the Cycle Shacks this time) and every system has a slight to very deep dip in the 2000-2500 range. The Pro-Pipe starts at 73 ft lbs at 2000, and climbs from there to a max of 92 ft lbs... no dips.

What good is 3000 and below? Actually, over 90% of riding is done below 3000 rpm. How often do you cruise down the interstate at 5000? Unless you are in 2nd gear, you wouldn't get far without getting stopped. ;) I have done extensive testing of exhaust systems over the past 25 years or so and the best overall performing pipes I've seen were the V&H Pro-Pipe. There are a couple other 2-1 systems that work just as well if they are tuned properly. Cycle Shacks are very good pipes for a 2-2 system, but they still do not create as much "street torque" in as the Pro-Pipe (below 3000). The Cycle Shacks perform best if you use stock headpipes with the crossover. A crossover-type exhaust is necessary for the best performance. Street torque is generally considered anything below 3500 rpm. The average rider just doesn't rev their engine above that very often. What most people want is torque that will let them pass someone without having to downshift, and without reving the engine more than necessary. My bike pulls strong on a 5th gear roll-on. There's no need to downshift and it will accel from 65 mph to 120+ mph very quickly. When I raced, I was always going to 6500 to shift, but rarely have a need to do that on the street. Of course, everybody has a different riding style. I am talking about the "average" rider.

Here's a good link to results of exhaust testing on Nightrider.com. http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/exhaust_test_01.htm. In their tests, the Cycle Shacks rate very well at 98% street power, but there are a few others that rate better. Have you tried the Bartels system? They are about the best 2-2 pipes there are, but they will cost you a lot more. Torque ain't cheap! :D Either way, stick with what you like. If the Cycle Shacks work for you, then enjoy! They are good pipes, after all. :thumbsup:
 

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ToddM said:
Don't forget... dyno shootout results depend as much on the experience of the tuner, as the components used to build the engine. You could spend a fortune using the very highest rated exhaust, but it won't run worth a crap if the tuner doesn't know what he's doing.

As an example of the Pro-Pipe.... on my Dyna (80 inch, ported and shaved heads, EV27 cam, S&S Super E, Dyna 2000i ignition w. custom curve, etc.), I tried 7 different sets (not the Cycle Shacks this time) and every system has a slight to very deep dip in the 2000-2500 range. The Pro-Pipe starts at 73 ft lbs at 2000, and climbs from there to a max of 92 ft lbs... no dips.

What good is 3000 and below? Actually, over 90% of riding is done below 3000 rpm. How often do you cruise down the interstate at 5000? Unless you are in 2nd gear, you wouldn't get far without getting stopped. ;) I have done extensive testing of exhaust systems over the past 25 years or so and the best overall performing pipes I've seen were the V&H Pro-Pipe. There are a couple other 2-1 systems that work just as well if they are tuned properly. Cycle Shacks are very good pipes for a 2-2 system, but they still do not create as much "street torque" in as the Pro-Pipe (below 3000). The Cycle Shacks perform best if you use stock headpipes with the crossover. A crossover-type exhaust is necessary for the best performance. Street torque is generally considered anything below 3500 rpm. The average rider just doesn't rev their engine above that very often. What most people want is torque that will let them pass someone without having to downshift, and without reving the engine more than necessary. My bike pulls strong on a 5th gear roll-on. There's no need to downshift and it will accel from 65 mph to 120+ mph very quickly. When I raced, I was always going to 6500 to shift, but rarely have a need to do that on the street. Of course, everybody has a different riding style. I am talking about the "average" rider.

Here's a good link to results of exhaust testing on Nightrider.com. http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/exhaust_test_01.htm. In their tests, the Cycle Shacks rate very well at 98% street power, but there are a few others that rate better. Have you tried the Bartels system? They are about the best 2-2 pipes there are, but they will cost you a lot more. Torque ain't cheap! :D Either way, stick with what you like. If the Cycle Shacks work for you, then enjoy! They are good pipes, after all. :thumbsup:

Todd im not running shacks i ran them before..im talking rollon power from 2500 to 4500 rpm...you talk about pro pipe..i was going to say they where the one pipe that lost power on a few buddys bikes..they worked well for you dont on all motors.....dyno testing i had done was fron one of the best in his field..rollingthunderdyno...from rollingthunderdyno.com...but tell ya the truth all my findings are from doing rollings on the highway with anyone i can find who wants to get it on...some guys I did rollons with all summer long changing pipes carbs ignitions...im no spring chicked bought and tried almost everything and my friends did also......still dont get the below 3000 stuf... where the hell do you ride below 3000 rpm...if im on the highway im close to 3000 all the time doing 70 mph..and if im at 2600rpm with in a blink of an eye im over 3000...not talking racing just rollon nice easy ride.......propipe is at the bottom of my list...its the other way around tq is easy to make..just stay moderate with every mod and you will have great tq all the time....go over or to big on one thing..then the 9 other mods you did are junk
 

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plasterhead said:
Todd im not running shacks i ran them before..im talking rollon power from 2500 to 4500 rpm...you talk about pro pipe..i was going to say they where the one pipe that lost power on a few buddys bikes..they worked well for you dont on all motors.....dyno testing i had done was fron one of the best in his field..rollingthunderdyno...from rollingthunderdyno.com...but tell ya the truth all my findings are from doing rollings on the highway with anyone i can find who wants to get it on...some guys I did rollons with all summer long changing pipes carbs ignitions...im no spring chicked bought and tried almost everything and my friends did also......still dont get the below 3000 stuf... where the hell do you ride below 3000 rpm...if im on the highway im close to 3000 all the time doing 70 mph..and if im at 2600rpm with in a blink of an eye im over 3000...not talking racing just rollon nice easy ride.......propipe is at the bottom of my list...its the other way around tq is easy to make..just stay moderate with every mod and you will have great tq all the time....go over or to big on one thing..then the 9 other mods you did are junk
I agree that every exhaust doesn't always work on all bikes. I just know that the Pro-Pipe (properly tuned) did very well on every engine I've tested. Apparently the guys at Nightrider.com came up with basically the same results I have, at least that's what's indicated by their exhaust testing results.

Last night, I performed a survey among several fellow bikers up here and also did a quick search on Google. The results showed that from results I received, most riding is done between 2000 and 3700 rpm. If that doesn't apply to you, fine. Every area has different types of roads, so I'm sure there are some people who don't ride back roads much, as we do up here. Where I live, there is only one interstate (running from Quebec to NY City). The next closest one is in Vermont, and there's another one a couple hundred miles south of here. That's fine for me since I would rather ride on the state highway that runs parallel to it, anyway... it's much more enjoyable for riding. This is why I want a lot of torque below 3000 rpm for good acceleration from a standing start, and for passing on twisty roads. Yes, I am running about 2800 at 70 mph too, but that's only on the interstate, and when I crank the throttle, there is absolutely no hesitation like I had with some of the other pipes I've tried. I'm doing over 100 in a heartbeat. With most of the 2-2 pipes I've tried, the bike always hesitated slightly until I hit 3200, then it would start pulling HARD. Problem is... I do not like that hesitation, even if it's there for only the blink of an eye. The Pro-Pipe fixed that problem perfectly! I must have found the right combination of parts, since it pulls strong now from idle on up to about 5500 rpm, then the torque curve starts to slowly drop off until 6000, then levels out at about 82 ft. lbs. until 6200, which is as high as I'll let it go.

The fact is, most riding isn't done on interstates (how many people ride ONLY on interstates? OK, maybe a few), so I'm usually reving about 2000-2500 rpm on the mountain roads up here. That's when I need the most torque, when climbing hills and passing on short stretches of straight road. I don't worry about passing power so much on interstates, since I rarely have to pass anyone in a big hurry... On other highways, county, and city roads, where the majority of riding my is done, you need to pass quickly or you run out of road.

But hey, whatever works for ya, go for it! Everyone rides differently, so they have different requirements. I appreciate your opinion, but I'll stick with what works for me. :)
 

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ToddM said:
I agree that every exhaust doesn't always work on all bikes. I just know that the Pro-Pipe (properly tuned) did very well on every engine I've tested. Apparently the guys at Nightrider.com came up with basically the same results I have, at least that's what's indicated by their exhaust testing results.

Last night, I performed a survey among several fellow bikers up here and also did a quick search on Google. The results showed that from results I received, most riding is done between 2000 and 3700 rpm. If that doesn't apply to you, fine. Every area has different types of roads, so I'm sure there are some people who don't ride back roads much, as we do up here. Where I live, there is only one interstate (running from Quebec to NY City). The next closest one is in Vermont, and there's another one a couple hundred miles south of here. That's fine for me since I would rather ride on the state highway that runs parallel to it, anyway... it's much more enjoyable for riding. This is why I want a lot of torque below 3000 rpm for good acceleration from a standing start, and for passing on twisty roads. Yes, I am running about 2800 at 70 mph too, but that's only on the interstate, and when I crank the throttle, there is absolutely no hesitation like I had with some of the other pipes I've tried. I'm doing over 100 in a heartbeat. With most of the 2-2 pipes I've tried, the bike always hesitated slightly until I hit 3200, then it would start pulling HARD. Problem is... I do not like that hesitation, even if it's there for only the blink of an eye. The Pro-Pipe fixed that problem perfectly! I must have found the right combination of parts, since it pulls strong now from idle on up to about 5500 rpm, then the torque curve starts to slowly drop off until 6000, then levels out at about 82 ft. lbs. until 6200, which is as high as I'll let it go.

The fact is, most riding isn't done on interstates (how many people ride ONLY on interstates? OK, maybe a few), so I'm usually reving about 2000-2500 rpm on the mountain roads up here. That's when I need the most torque, when climbing hills and passing on short stretches of straight road. I don't worry about passing power so much on interstates, since I rarely have to pass anyone in a big hurry... On other highways, county, and city roads, where the majority of riding my is done, you need to pass quickly or you run out of road.

But hey, whatever works for ya, go for it! Everyone rides differently, so they have different requirements. I appreciate your opinion, but I'll stick with what works for me. :)

seems like the stock exhaust system whould do what your looking for in that rpm range..I hear what your saying,,,around my way boston thunderheader is big there everywhere and seem to work well on 80 ci to 113 ci..with thunderheader i hit 100 tq at 2000 rpm at 2500 rpm im at 127 tq through the range,,so I know what your talking about when you want crisp responce at low end...roads are more wide open around my way....best low end piped i tryed was the python AR 2......what can you running for your low end grunt
 

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plasterhead said:
seems like the stock exhaust system whould do what your looking for in that rpm range..I hear what your saying,,,around my way boston thunderheader is big there everywhere and seem to work well on 80 ci to 113 ci..with thunderheader i hit 100 tq at 2000 rpm at 2500 rpm im at 127 tq through the range,,so I know what your talking about when you want crisp responce at low end...roads are more wide open around my way....best low end piped i tryed was the python AR 2......what can you running for your low end grunt
Stock exhaust?? Funny! :roflback: The Python pipes are great! I just don't like 2-2s, except on my old Shovel or Sporty. But that's just a matter of personal preference. My hearing isn't the best after working on jet engines, Harleys and Triumphs for most of my life, so really loud pipes get annoying on those long runs across the country. That's another advantage to using 2-1s. They move the sound further back (they just annoy the passenger... but who cares? LOL!).

Yeah, my bros in Cleveland says the same thing about the T-header. I tried a set a few years ago, and it performed on par with the Pro-Pipe (at least on the dyno), but I didn't like the way it was made. The Pro-Pipe has a perfect fit every time and it seems to be made better, heavier steel and top-notch plating. The T-header seemed "cheaper", at least to me.

I have been running the EV27, which has good duration numbers (LOW), but I will be switching to the Woods W6H in a few weeks. I like low duration cams since they help put the torque down low, too. This cam will take better advantage of the head work I've done. I should be hitting over 100 ft.lbs. with no problem. That's plenty for my purposes. I don't need a lot of high end, so high HP numbers aren't a big concern. I rarely rev above 5000, which is where the HP really has an effect. The roads up here aren't made for traveling at high speed, nor would I want to on the street.... too darn dangerous with all the blind idiots on the road these days. :) Lots of deer up here, too. I've had it up to well over 120 a couple times, but don't plan on doing it again unless I'm on a track.
 

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ToddM said:
Stock exhaust?? Funny! :roflback: The Python pipes are great! I just don't like 2-2s, except on my old Shovel or Sporty. But that's just a matter of personal preference. My hearing isn't the best after working on jet engines, Harleys and Triumphs for most of my life, so really loud pipes get annoying on those long runs across the country. That's another advantage to using 2-1s. They move the sound further back (they just annoy the passenger... but who cares? LOL!).

Yeah, my bros in Cleveland says the same thing about the T-header. I tried a set a few years ago, and it performed on par with the Pro-Pipe (at least on the dyno), but I didn't like the way it was made. The Pro-Pipe has a perfect fit every time and it seems to be made better, heavier steel and top-notch plating. The T-header seemed "cheaper", at least to me.

I have been running the EV27, which has good duration numbers (LOW), but I will be switching to the Woods W6H in a few weeks. I like low duration cams since they help put the torque down low, too. This cam will take better advantage of the head work I've done. I should be hitting over 100 ft.lbs. with no problem. That's plenty for my purposes. I don't need a lot of high end, so high HP numbers aren't a big concern. I rarely rev above 5000, which is where the HP really has an effect. The roads up here aren't made for traveling at high speed, nor would I want to on the street.... too darn dangerous with all the blind idiots on the road these days. :) Lots of deer up here, too. I've had it up to well over 120 a couple times, but don't plan on doing it again unless I'm on a track.
you have EV27 AND GET 92 lbs tq...that very good cant say i see that before...whats the specs of the w6h
 

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Yes, it took a lot of work to squeeze out that much torque, but it's been done on many 80 inch EVOs in the past, so I figured I could get similiar results with the right modifications. The W6H cam is known for making over 100 in.lbs. on 80 inch engines. I've seen many dyno sheets backing it up. As close to 100 as I am now, this cam should have no trouble putting it over that amount. Here are the specs taken from GMR Perf. website:

W6H 20/40-42/18 240/240 .590/.590 .192/.179 HI-LIFT

Most advanced powerful torque cam available anywhere. 80 ci. Well over 100 lbs torque

They make a version for the TC, too.
 

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ToddM said:
Yes, it took a lot of work to squeeze out that much torque, but it's been done on many 80 inch EVOs in the past, so I figured I could get similiar results with the right modifications. The W6H cam is known for making over 100 in.lbs. on 80 inch engines. I've seen many dyno sheets backing it up. As close to 100 as I am now, this cam should have no trouble putting it over that amount. Here are the specs taken from GMR Perf. website:

W6H 20/40-42/18 240/240 .590/.590 .192/.179 HI-LIFT

Most advanced powerful torque cam available anywhere. 80 ci. Well over 100 lbs torque

They make a version for the TC, too.
your heads set up for that lift going from a 495 lift to 590 lift

let me know how it worksd out....when i had a 80 ci went from ev35 to a cyclerama 575 lift and felt stronger through the hole range except on very top end...liked the way high lift felt'''''lot of tq for evo motor hope cases hold up
 

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ToddM said:
Yes, it took a lot of work to squeeze out that much torque, but it's been done on many 80 inch EVOs in the past, so I figured I could get similiar results with the right modifications. The W6H cam is known for making over 100 in.lbs. on 80 inch engines. I've seen many dyno sheets backing it up. As close to 100 as I am now, this cam should have no trouble putting it over that amount. Here are the specs taken from GMR Perf. website:

W6H 20/40-42/18 240/240 .590/.590 .192/.179 HI-LIFT

Most advanced powerful torque cam available anywhere. 80 ci. Well over 100 lbs torque

They make a version for the TC, too.
So Todd did you get your 100 lbs torque with your new cam...probably not
 
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