Powercommander is way more "user-friendly", SERT is much better at what it does..
Powercommander stays on the bike, adding 1 more peice of equipment that can fail, and if it fails you could hurt your engine riding it back home. Buddy had fail last weekend, had to cut it off the bike as we were in the middle of a ride. There goes $280 (according to Pike) down the shitter.. :spank:
My SERT was safe and sound at home.:beer:
The PC seems to be "entry level" without sounding harsh.. Alot of guys seemto start with them, but down the road end up switching to something else. That's what I did.
This is all my opinion of course, and you will get several opinions that swing both ways.. Buy the SERT, find a good tuner in your area that knows how to use it, or learn to use it well yourself, and don't look back..
When your buddies PC fails you can make him ride bitch back to the shop to spend his money on something else..

After having the SERT, and now the WEGO to use with it, I realize I should have just bought the SERT to begin with..

Brad

 

Hey,

the PC is easier to use but the SERT does allow more adjustments.

If the PC fails, you can remove it and try to make it home.

If somethings happens to your ecu with the SERT you had better hope you have a copy of your tune with you and a spare ECU or you are no better off than the guy with the PC. The SERT will only work with one VIN, not sure what happens when you install a new ECU and the sert is already installed with the ECU that failed.

More folks will chime in and give you even more detail.

Neither unit is bad, you just need to know what you plan to do with your bike.

 

I chose the SERT for that very reason. The likelyhood of the ECM failing is minimal compared to the PCIII. If a PCIII were to fail, would you want to ride it home risking engine damage? I keep my map with me on a flashdrive along with the SERT key.

 

I keep my map with me on a flashdrive along with the SERT key.

What is the SERT key?? My SERT has no key..

If somethings happens to your ecu with the SERT you had better hope you have a copy of your tune with you and a spare ECU or you are no better off than the guy with the PC. The SERT will only work with one VIN, not sure what happens when you install a new ECU and the sert is already installed with the ECU that failed.

If your ECU fails, it would make no difference if you had the SERT or the PC... If this happens (unlikely) they flash a new ECM with your VIN and your SERT know's no difference and still works.. I read about PC's failing all the time..
Great if your in town, what if your on a road trip..
I wouldn't drive my bike if a PC quit.. That's asking for trouble..

 

Uh, I believe I'm correct...if your PC fails, all you have to do is unplug it and plug the original cable back into the ECU and you're back to original settings and operation. On the '07s, you'd also have to unplug the O2 eliminators and plug those cables back in. Not very difficult if it has to be done.

I like the PCIII USB for price, ease of installation and simplicity of tuning/re-tuning for the more or less amateur.

 

I keep my map with me on a flashdrive along with the SERT key.

Me too.......Wouldn't leave home without it...........

 

Strictly from a reliability point of view, any add on to an existing system reduces system reliability. If you have a 99.99% reliable ECM and you add a 99.99% reliable PC, the system reliability moves to 99.99 * 99.99 = 99.98%. Doesn't look like much, but it actually is a significant decrease in system reliability. And I doubt that a cheap PC is built to the same military/automotive specs as the mass produced ECM is.

 

They a sell a shlt load of PCs. Not only for Harleys, but for Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Aprillia, etc. I don't think a bunch of these are failing. So, I wouldn't worry about reliability.

Very easy to use. Can be used on many different bikes.

 

What is the SERT key?? My SERT has no key..

Key, dongle, little black box, computer interface module, etc.....

 

Uh, I believe I'm correct...if your PC fails, all you have to do is unplug it and plug the original cable back into the ECU and you're back to original settings and operation. On the '07s, you'd also have to unplug the O2 eliminators and plug those cables back in. Not very difficult if it has to be done.

I like the PCIII USB for price, ease of installation and simplicity of tuning/re-tuning for the more or less amateur.

Thats fine if you have a near stock bike. But there are many of us who have a bike so modified, it would do engine damage to run on the stock map.
Using a PCIII will get you a tune, but failure on the road is not a matter of unplug, replug with a modified engine. Hence, the reprogrammed ecm with the SERT.

 

Thats fine if you have a near stock bike. But there are many of us who have a bike so modified, it would do engine damage to run on the stock map.
Using a PCIII will get you a tune, but failure on the road is not a matter of unplug, replug with a modified engine. Hence, the reprogrammed ecm with the SERT.

Ah...okay...I wasn't thinking of modified engine. My experience has been only with Stage 1 type engines. The original poster has a pretty tame setup.

 

They a sell a shlt load of PCs. Not only for Harleys, but for Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Aprillia, etc. I don't think a bunch of these are failing. So, I wouldn't worry about reliability.

Very easy to use. Can be used on many different bikes.

I wasn't worried about it either, until my buddies failed last weekend.. So from the 2 I've experienced, 1 has failed.. That = 50% failure rate to me..
I do realize that they are not experiencing a 50% failure rate from the factory.. But as ViennaHog stated, they are not built to the same standards as the factory ECU..

 

I don't think any of us know what "standards" either of these units are built to. I think having a PC strand you on the road would be easier than just reading SERT manual.:yikes: 138 pages.

www.springer.ws/sertmanual.pdf

 

LOL... As stated, it does a little bit more than the PCIII, about a 136 pages more.. :roflback:

 

I don't think any of us know what "standards" either of these units are built to. I think having a PC strand you on the road would be easier than just reading SERT manual.:yikes: 138 pages.

www.springer.ws/sertmanual.pdf

not bragging...but... I have a clue. check out the 2nd paragraph here-----> http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1182937&postcount=58 This happens to be my field of expertise for the last 30 years and I know more about the ecu than I am allowed to discuss.

Vienna is right-on in his assessment, except, you also have to also add in the reliability degradation from the extra connections and connectors also. Connectors and connection count are the number one cause of electrical failures in vehicles.

Also, I forgot to add that the information in the SERT manual is pretty good and actually, I wish it had a bit more!

 

:thumbsup: @gree:

I'm sure with some digging one could find the component failure rate of any electronics manufaturer...

 

Hello All,

I am wondering which program is easier to use, the SERT or Power Commander. I have found a SERT set here on V-Twin and don't know much about them. My brother in law uses the Power Commander on his bike, it's not stock, mine is, basicly. Here is the hardware ...

Stock 2003 FLHTpi, V & H true dual headpipes, S/E aircleaner, Stock 2007 mufflers. I don't have any downloads in the computer, untouched. I went with the 2007 mufflers for more flow, stock exhaust the bike labored riding two up, not any more. What I am worried about is running too lean. Some day I'll upgrade the engine, but I want to make sure I'm not going to loose a cylinder.

Brother In Law's bike is a 1550, two into one exhaust, gear drive cams, S/E air cleaner, gets 48 mpg on the highway. I'm currently at 40 mpg two up riding. I wanted to check with the group to get opinions on this subject.

Thanks,

I stand corrected, Tote knows what "standard" the stock unit is built to. What I meant by "any of us" was, those participating in the thread. I've read many of your posts Tote and I respect your knowledge. I wouldn't have made that comment if you had been part of the discussion.

n8iws wants to know which is easier to use. I don't even think it is a matter of opinion. The thing (PC) shows up at your doorstep with the friggin map already in it!!

Question for Tote regarding the dependability twist this thread has taken:

Assuming the most common build is a 95" or 98" with ported heads, cam, AC kit, free flow exhaust. Let's say this bike has been tuned with a PC. You are 60 miles from home and the PC fails. Tote, would you feel comfortable unplugging the PC and limping home? More specifically, do you think the 3 stages of the heat management system provide enough protection?

 

Hey Pike! it's all good!
I wasn't implying anything, just that I really do understand how the Delphi ecu is made and the material set it uses versus the aftermarket solutions. There is nothing better than the Delphi ecu as far as construction goes and without even looking inside a PCIII, I'm 99.9% confident it's a typical pcb job. Rumour has it, in a few years, they are looking at cost reducing the current ecu to use conventional pcb materials. Stay tuned! (no pun intended) and like I said elsewhere, this may not be a bad thing necessarily because it may be reliable enough for the application but I know the ceramic version is demonstably better in grueling accelerated life tests.

With regard to your question..... well, if it were my bike, I would have paid to have a better map uploaded into the ecu, just in case. So, that's another expense to have a safety net when using a power commander for me. If it were the stock map in there, I wouldn't subject my built motor that I have a lot of $$$$'s in it to that abuse, even with the heat management system. Too easy to torch a piston. If it's just a simple Stage 1 or something like that, it should be no problem. By the way, I've now seen a number of the PCIII's fail, it's not a lot but still way more of them than the oem ecu.

All the best!

 

You watch, I bet my PCIII shlts the bed now.

 

You watch, I bet my PCIII shlts the bed now.

Not likely but I certainly understand your take on it.

O'Toole's Corollary to Murphy's Law.........

Murphy was a frickin optimist!

You didn't by chance do one of the high performance flashes before the PC tune, did you? That would give you a much better chance of limping home safely.

 

The PC is easier to use and faster to tune than the SERT.

SERT is a better tuning tool, takes more time, gives better results when done properly.




.

 

@gree: Simplified version of exactly what I said..

Easy Pike..:gun: No one's trying to lure you (pun intended) away from your PC..
It works, just works a different way..

 

Ah...okay...I wasn't thinking of modified engine. My experience has been only with Stage 1 type engines. The original poster has a pretty tame setup.

My Brother Trooper hit the nail on the head, it's pretty tame, for now. I just want to make sure I don't have a melt down on the road. As many horror stories I have heard about the stage 1 download the stealers have to install for you, My bike runs just fine. I don't redline it, just two up touring, some times very quickly. :yikes:

Another point was made also, connections and connectors, the weak link in the electrical chain. These are low voltage, low amperge circuits, any hint of moisture invites corrosion, leading to breakdown. :thumbsdn:

I'm planning to do the gear drive cam set up just for the sake of security due to the cam chain issues. So, I'm sure I'll select something that fits the touring mode I prefer than the full throttle approach some of these dyno guys are setting up. So, just planning ahead for myself.

Thanks for the input, keep it coming.

 

My Brother Trooper hit the nail on the head, it's pretty tame, for now.
So, just planning ahead for myself.

For now.. that's the kicker.. For now you could spend $300 and get something to help out your slightly lean stage1 (if your bike only has the stage1 upgrade, it WILL NOT melt itself down) and then down the road you can spend another $400 to get something better when you upgrade the engine..

If you are planning ahead, get the SERT. It will fit with all your upgrades later...

 

Stock 2003 FLHTpi, V & H true dual headpipes, S/E aircleaner, Stock 2007 mufflers. I don't have any downloads in the computer, untouched. I went with the 2007 mufflers for more flow, stock exhaust the bike labored riding two up, not any more. What I am worried about is running too lean. Some day I'll upgrade the engine, but I want to make sure I'm not going to loose a cylinder.

Just re-read your initial post... You should be running the stage1 download, but don't pay $150 for it.. Get the SERT and put it on there yourself.. Then later when you do upgrade you'll get your money out of it..