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XLIII
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Discussion Starter #1
One of the wrenches at the local shop and I were discussing the differences, and since the MoCo don't tell them squat, I was wondering if any of you had noticed a big difference in how the '05s behave during decel between the 4.12 maps and the 4.50 maps.
Seems like with the 4.50 maps, it's almost like it shuts down the injectors until around 2k during decel, then there is a little "surge", for lack of a better description. When you roll the throttle back on, there is a little jerk as well.
I liked the 4.12 maps better, I think, but as I understand it, once a map from a newer software version is loaded, it won't accept one from a previous version. Darned shame, since this map was a 4.12 until the new software got put on the shops computer and it was converted to 4.50 for a minor change.
Anybody know exactly what they changed? It's something you can't see by looking at what's displayed...
 

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Premium Member
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Dave, I can't answer what was changed cuz I'm new to this. But I can tell you you are able to use *.mt5 files in v4.50. Open up the Tuning program. Select the *.mt5 file that you want to use (You have to tell the program to look for *.mt5 files because the default is *.mt6. Once you open the *.mt5 file, you will get a warning message saying you cannot use this file directly. Open up another instance of the Tuning software and select the *.mt6 you want to modify. All you have to do is copy and paste the data from the different tables. In less than five minutes you have changed a *.mt5 file to *.mt6.

Hope this helps - Ken
 

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XLIII
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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for that, and that's what we did, but the end result is that the .mt6 file that was created with the data from the .mt5 file is now an .mt6 file and behaves differently during decel than the .mt5 version of it did. The wrench had noticed the same thing as well. The advantage for those experiencing decel popping is that issue seems to have been taken care of with the way it behaves now, but I wasn't having that problem, and miss the way the .mt5 behaved during decel.
 

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I have not used the 4.5 SERT yet. But in your description you said once a 4.5 map is loaded it wouldn't accept a 4.12 map. I don't understand why that would be. The ECM is still the same (02-05) and the SERT merely populates the tables. Regardless of what the last map was that was loaded in, a previus version SERT program should be able to over write the 4.5 map in the ECM.

The maps themselves can not be used with an earlier SERT but that is from the program stand point not what is loaded in the ECM. In other words you can't use a 4.12 program to load a 4.5 map.

If you wanted to take the time to convert a map you could open the map of choice in a 4.12 program and record all of the tables and settings and then open any map for the 4.5 program and proceed to enter in all the tables and settings. The end result would be loading the exact same info into the ECM regardless of the version of program.

When they went from the 3.5 version to the 4.12 version, they added the ability to change additional settings in the ECM but the program itself didn't add those settings to the ECM just the ability to change them. I would assume that if the 4.5 version of the program has added features, it is merely allowing you to set what was already there.

Hope that helps ....

NEXT !!!
 

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Premium Member
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36 Posts
Dave, I'm actually using your final map. I just loaded it 2 days ago and have only been able to ride approx. 100 miles with it. My bike is NOT experiencing your concerns. It is so much improved from the stage 1 flash, I wish I would have done it 5k ago. I know I am very new here, and that you are very experienced, but could I recommend that you double check the copy and paste data. I found that I had pasted VE front to the VE rear table. I found this before I did the reflash. Thanks for your map, and good luck at getting to the root of your concern.

Ken
 

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XLIII
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Discussion Starter #8
Completely different map I'm using now, since I went BB, heads, cams. I haven't posted it yet, but will when I'm finally really happy with it.
That's kind of odd, though, if you're using 4.50.
We're fiddling with timing at the moment, and maybe that will address my concerns, but it seems odd that I didn't notice this until we changed to 4.50.

Anyway, to Springer, I don't have first hand experience with the maps not taking if you attempt to load w/ previous versions of the software, it's just anecdotal from another user who experienced the problem w/ the switch from 4.10 to 4.12 at his tuner's shop, then he couldn't upload a 4.10 map. When he got 4.12, it loaded fine...

My head hurts.

Oh, and I'm NOT experienced. I am just stumbling through, learning where I can. I probably post more questions than answers, but I like to share what little I have learned so others don't have to go through some of the crap I've had to. :D
 

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I have version 3.5 and 4.12 race tuner loaded on my pc and you can most definately load an earlier version map in the bike with no complications. When you load a later software version on your pc it tells you to remove any eariler version of the Race Tuner. Why? I don't know. I find that if I have some mt2 files already, that I like the way they are then why go through the work to convert the file to a later version. I see where later version software might have some additional features but if I like the map the way it is then I see no need to change the format. Also I can share the map with someone that has an eariler version software.

The Millmutt
2003FLHTCI 103
2003FLHTCSE
 

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Rev 4.5.0

Mega,
I am running 4.5.0 and yes it is shutting off the injectors on decel. As you noted, when you get down to a certain range of rpm, they start back in operation again and you do get a slight surge, which I have found a little annoying when I'm finely balanced in a slow speed turn for example or braking hard coming up on a stop. But, that's what it does.
 

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XLIII
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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Hmmmmm.
I might just load 4.12 back up on the laptop, make my changes to that map and see how it goes...
Thanks. It'll be a few days, since it's raining, but I'll let y'all know how it works out.
Keep those cards and letters coming!
 

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Believe it or not, I've actually gotten used to this little quirk now and it doesn't bother me anymore because I know it's coming........ but at first, I was thinking:
"WTF!!" :hmmm:
 

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Fuel SYS ENG
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144 Posts
Guys,

Try having HD flash/reset your ECM back to the stock file then flash your ECM with your current SERT file.

Several have noticed ( and so have I ) this problem while fine tuning a bike on the dyno that's been flashed by SERT several times.

Cheers
 

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05 FLHTCI
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345 Posts
Don't stock 06's act this way too?

I thought I read somewhere on this board that the stock 06's did this. I think this was an attempt to improve emissions and as a side benefit, cut the decel popping with pipe changes.

David
 

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XLIII
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10,078 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
BaggerDave said:
I thought I read somewhere on this board that the stock 06's did this. I think this was an attempt to improve emissions and as a side benefit, cut the decel popping with pipe changes.

David
I had read the same thing as well. I'm gonna try 4.12 with my settings and see how it works out. W/ 4.50 the maps are the same for '05 and '06 ECU, so it seems likely that the 4.50 maps for the '05 ECU have this "improvement", but we'll see, I guess...
 

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My motor guru and mentor just told me recently that because of all of the map uploads I've done, that he wants me to reset the ECU. I believe he told me to just unhook one of the battery connections for something like 20 or 30 minutes and then reload my current map. He mentioned that sometimes the stored registers in the ECU don't always get cleared properly. I believe that he then said that after the first start up again, things are resetting and it may take another startup to act correctly to the intended settings.

Does this sound right or am I forgetting something?
 

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XLIII
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Discussion Starter #17
Totenkopf said:
My motor guru and mentor just told me recently that because of all of the map uploads I've done, that he wants me to reset the ECU. I believe he told me to just unhook one of the battery connections for something like 20 or 30 minutes and then reload my current map. He mentioned that sometimes the stored registers in the ECU don't always get cleared properly. I believe that he then said that after the first start up again, things are resetting and it may take another startup to act correctly to the intended settings.

Does this sound right or am I forgetting something?
Never heard of it.
It gets about a jillion uploads during any full tune.
 

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Apparently the procedure resets registers that the SERT doesn't have access to that the ECU stores data in.
 

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XLIII
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Discussion Starter #19
Still trying to make sense of this.
If the SERT doesn't have access to the registers, how does the uploading of maps w/ the SERT corrupt them?
 

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yeah, me too. I'd love to see the logic diagram of the ECU and a description of how it works.

I know that the ECU takes the SERT map inputs and does a lot of operational calculations based on all the sensor inputs and engine dynamics. I have also heard there are registers that carry stored data based on all of this and that it is possible for data corruption. The best way to clear it, is by the procedure described earlier and then reload the intended map.

I have seen 2 or 3 times now when I have just wanted to upload a slightly tweaked map, that before it programs the ECU, it reloads the OS first.

Have you seen that happen? I wonder what triggers that?
 
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