Seeking opinions for a good friend........

1641 Views 15 Replies 8 Participants Last post by WVULTRA, Dec 12, 2005

WVULTRA

Discussion Starter · Dec 8, 2005

Good friend/rider has been discussing his bike, and since he doesn't find time to surf great sites like this one, thought I would share his build with everyone and hopefully get some solid feedback.

He has an '02 Ultra that has approximately 35,000 miles. He bought it used from Dealer co-owner, and feels the performance isn't what it should be. AFAIK, it's never been on a dyno as they are far and few between in our part of the country.

What has me also concerned, from my reading and research here, is his compression ratio. He has the documentation from the upgrade which was all H-D and included the 95" Stage II Big Bore kit along with the standard (non htcc/ported) Screamin Eagle Heads. Of course cams are the 203s. What's strange to me is instead of using the included flat cast pistons pistons (10:1) the previous owner had the techs install the #22868-00 forged high comp pistons that yield per the SE Catalog 10.5:1 Compression Ratio. His SE heads are the earlier versions that didn't have provision for comp releases.

He plans on checking the tensioners this winter, and IMO he might need different cams and/or pistions as I'm thinking his CR is too high for the 203 cams.

Sorry for the long post, but any advise/opinions are appreciated.

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WVULTRA

Discussion Starter · #2 · Dec 10, 2005

68 Views and not one post?

If this request out of line, let me know and I'll delete it!

:sucks:

??

HIPPO

· #3 · Dec 10, 2005

Too lazy to look the pistons up by part#

All I would say is that if it really has 10.5 CR and 203 cams and is still starting it is one amazing bike.

WVULTRA

Discussion Starter · #4 · Dec 10, 2005

HIPPO said:
Too lazy to look the pistons up by part#

All I would say is that if it really has 10.5 CR and 203 cams and is still starting it is one amazing bike.

Hippo:

Damn, thanks for replying...........I was thinking this post was going nowhere due to me asking something wrong....:dunno:

Having nothing but the SE Catalog and the SERT files for reference, the 3 7/8" Forged 1550 Pistons I mention above yield 10.5:1 with the standard Screamin' Eagle Performance Heads according to the Catalog.

Checking the SERT Calibration files, using these same Forged Pistons in this configuration should equal the "High Output" build that uses the SE257 Cams.

That's what has me wondering if my friends CR is too high for the SE203s, and should have cams similar to the 257s.

Again I respect your opinion and would be glad to pass on any recommendations you may offer.

Thanks muchly!

:beer4u:

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HIPPO

· #5 · Dec 10, 2005

H-D and included the 95" Stage II Big Bore kit along with the standard (non htcc/ported) Screamin Eagle Heads.

Not even clear what heads are on it.
Do you mean HTCC (non CNC ported)?

If so they are not compatible with the part# piston you posted, I looked and it is a high compression forged piston for use with either stock or SE performance heads.

If it has SE performance heads (which is most likely) and those pistons, while the HD CR #'s don't match reality, they still would be too high for a 203 cam.

Personally I don't like the 257 cam in 95" builds.

If it were at 10.5 CR I wouldn't even use a S&S 570. Again if it had that CR ( which it may not) it would be a good candidate for one of the Mike Roland cams, either a 2G or a 26G. If S&S a 585, but it would be more of a top end bike.

Possibly the reason no one responded is that we don't know what you have there.

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fijfi

· #6 · Dec 10, 2005

WVRDKING said:
AFAIK, it's never been on a dyno as they are far and few between in our part of the country.

Where in WV are you? Seems like there should be a Dyno within a couple hours of you.

genoway

· #7 · Dec 10, 2005

For SE Performance heads and HD Forged 1550 pistons, making 10.5 static CR, and no compression releases, look at the following:
Andrews TW55G, high lift .550
Andrews TW67G, high lift .570
Those heads should go up to .575 lift and those cams will take the compression.

Or, he can change the pistons to flat tops and broaden his choices to cams that close before 46 degrees and provide more low down torque for a bagger.

WVULTRA

Discussion Starter · #8 · Dec 10, 2005

HIPPO said:
Not even clear what heads are on it.
Do you mean HTCC (non CNC ported)?

If so they are not compatible with the part# piston you posted, I looked and it is a high compression forged piston for use with either stock or SE performance heads.

If it has SE performance heads (which is most likely) and those pistons, while the HD CR #'s don't match reality, they still would be too high for a 203 cam.

Personally I don't like the 257 cam in 95" builds.

If it were at 10.5 CR I wouldn't even use a S&S 570. Again if it had that CR ( which it may not) it would be a good candidate for one of the Mike Roland cams, either a 2G or a 26G. If S&S a 585, but it would be more of a top end bike.

Possibly the reason no one responded is that we don't know what you have there.

Sorry if I wasn't clear and had everyone confused..........:duh?:

All H-D Parts:
95"
203 Cams
HC Forged Pistons (10.5:1 according to H-D)
Standard SE Performance Heads (not ported, not htcc)

That was my point in that the realistic Comp Ratio would be too high for the 203s. I don't know anyone with 257s in this type build; but I realize the specs for 203 vs. 257 are very different.

Based on the excellent knowledge here, I want to offer him some solid options that compliment his riding style. With an Ultra I'm guessing he'll want good bottom end and may end up changing the pistons, changing cams, or both.

Thanks again Hippo!

:thumbsup:

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WVULTRA

Discussion Starter · #9 · Dec 10, 2005

fijfi said:
Where in WV are you? Seems like there should be a Dyno within a couple hours of you.

Jamie:

Benjy's in Huntington and H-D in Charleston probably have Dynos and yes are couple hours away.

I know no one who has used and/or recommended either; and more especially whether or not they are trained for the SERT.

:thanks:

WVULTRA

Discussion Starter · #10 · Dec 10, 2005

genoway said:
For SE Performance heads and HD Forged 1550 pistons, making 10.5 static CR, and no compression releases, look at the following:
Andrews TW55G, high lift .550
Andrews TW67G, high lift .570
Those heads should go up to .575 lift and those cams will take the compression.

Or, he can change the pistons to flat tops and broaden his choices to cams that close before 46 degrees and provide more low down torque for a bagger.

gen:

I'm also guessing he'll be more interested in bottom end!

:thanks:

Toyman

· #11 · Dec 11, 2005

I would do a compression test first and post the numbers here for feedback. A 203 cam in that setup should be a pinging/starting nightmare! I had a 95 with the SE257 cam and it is not a good combo for a bagger, a real dog below 3500 rpms! As Hippo mentioned, if it truly has 10.5-1 compression the Wildthings TC2 cam would work very well.

HDWRENCH

· #12 · Dec 11, 2005

SE list the 203 and h/c pistons as a torque package and they list it in the SE catalog. as t/c 1550 stage III torque carburated.

WVULTRA

Discussion Starter · #13 · Dec 11, 2005

HDWRENCH said:
SE list the 203 and h/c pistons as a torque package and they list it in the SE catalog. as t/c 1550 stage III torque carburated.

HD: I didn't think about looking in the carbureted section....('02 Ultra) but I do see the reference.

The 1550 Stage III lists the h/c pistons #22661-99A:

10.25:1 cast pistons designed for use with the Twin Cam engine equipped with stock cylinder heads and Big Bore cylinders (1550)

Looking at the STAGE IV TORQUE-CARBURETED shows the #22868-00 forged h/c pistons (10.5:1) and performance heads that this Ultra actually has; but lists the SE-257 Cam. (vs.the SE-203)

Hope this helps explain our confusion........do we change pistons, cams, or both?

:thanks:

95FLHR

· #14 · Dec 11, 2005

I am not a guru but I saw a dyno over on HTT of an EG with similar set up, SE heads. He is using WT flat tops, I think he said his CR is about 10.2 and a WT-2g cam. Had about 103 tq and 98 hp as I recall. Said it ran great, smooth and quiet, lots of power. I know that they say the WT cams like about 10.5-1 cr so if it were me, I would just look to change out the cam.

wyodude

· #15 · Dec 11, 2005

WVRDKING said:
What has me also concerned, from my reading and research here, is his compression ratio. He has the documentation from the upgrade which was all H-D and included the 95" Stage II Big Bore kit along with the standard (non htcc/ported) Screamin Eagle Heads. Of course cams are the 203s. What's strange to me is instead of using the included flat cast pistons pistons (10:1) the previous owner had the techs install the #22868-00 forged high comp pistons that yield per the SE Catalog 10.5:1 Compression Ratio. His SE heads are the earlier versions that didn't have provision for comp releases.

My 95 inch build used the big barrels, SE heads, 204 cams, and the forged pistions, yielding 10.5:1 comprression ratio. Cylinder cranking pressure was huge, i would peg a 250 psi compression gauge.

I had compression releases installed in the heads at the time of the build. I ended up adding a SE high output starter.

The motor ran great as long as I kept 93 octane fuel in it, it would ping on 89 and lower octane.

This motor grenaded when a cam bearing failed (35,000 miles).

My advice to your friend would be to look at the Andrews 37G cam.

regards,

wyo

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WVULTRA

Discussion Starter · #16 · Dec 12, 2005

It appears the concensus is to change the cams.

Thanks to everyone that replied.

:beer4u:

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