[vpoirier]

I've just bought SE heads. In the spring I will do the 1550 upgrade. I will use the flat top pistons. That will give me 10:1. I have the dyna tc88-2 ignition, tw37b cams and the .030 cometic head gasket. To be safe I think the tw37's will have to go.

What cam or cams will do a good job with the flat tops and the SE heads?
Can the .030 head gasket be used in this set up?
Are there any valve to piston clearance issues with the flat tops and the SE heads?

 

[HDWRENCH]

Not to be critical but the questions you ask tell me that you are not able to handle the task of building this engine. First the SE heads need to be CC'D then you will know what you comp ratio is. The cam you choose will dictate what comp ratio you need. A large cam needs more cyinder PSI then a smaller one. This is general stuff here.

Piston to valve clearance is done when you mock the engine up. I use solder some use clay others use playdough. Also I am not sure what the exact lift is on the 37 but is it going to clear the case?? What springs are are in the Se how much lift are they good for?? You might want some help on this from a shop or a friend that know how to build a engine.


This was not ment to offended you in anyway.....
. But what you are doing it not just a simple bolt on part . As well as there are several hundred dollars worth of special tools you are going to need. Any time you change the valve train and it is not stock all of this need to be clearanced and checked.

Good luck

 

[vpoirier]

No, I do not have the ability to do this work, not to say that I do not understand valve closing and compression. The Se heads[79cc] with Flat top pistons yield a 10:1 compression ratio with the 1550 set up. The tw37b is a 510 lift which should be fine. What bothers me about the 37 is the 42 degree intake valve closeing. From what I read about short block charlie is they seem to go as high as 9.7:1 with no problems. Others can get the ping under control{10:1} but are having starter problems. I'm in Nova Scotia, the dealer that will be doing the work is not experienced in the hop ups. They did one last september and it worked very good. Thats why I'm here.
Piston to valve clearence is a concern because of reading where the valves were touching the pistons on a Se head flat top setup with tw55 cams[550 lift] I'm sure that 510 and less lift will be OK. The larger intake valve is the problem in the SE head. The touching happened at high RPM, the mark on the piston was realy just in the carbon.
The springs in the SE heads are good for 575 lift. So to accomidate that I would probably have to go with high compression forged pistons which are made for the SE HEAD.
In my mind with the flat tops I am limited to a bolt in cam like the tw50 or the SE211.
This is maybe what I should have wrote, but I'm not a Harley mechanic. I'm sure most of the shops don't CC much when going with the parts in the catalog, because they're supposed to fit, but when you see a 1550 kit with high compression pistons with a 203 cam with 36 degree intake closeing in one of harleys offerings , a few months ago I would not think much of it but now I know that that setup is hard on the starter and will not have high milage.
So thats my reply, I didn't give enough info and was not affended. This site and others have helped me greatly, I have also changed my mind on things, but I have to get it right and I think I'm on the right track thanks to people like youself.

 

[supersport]

vpoirier,

Search my previous posts regarding the build of my engine. I used all SE parts so as to avoid incompatibility. The forged hi-comp SE slugs will yield 10.5 to 1 when used with SE heads. The SE 257 cams(comp cams) compliment this build for the 10.5 to 1 comp. ratio. With proper jetting, free flow intake and exhaust, you'll be near the 100 horse mark. Don't know how your ign. will work since I'm running SE 6200 RPM race ign.

The bike runs real respectable like!

 

[HDWRENCH]

One thing you did not mention is your motor a B or a A motor?? B motors will require clearancing for the cams above the 203 cam. Zippers makes a nice tool ($185) that will cut the the case where the lobes contact. Mine cam is 630 lift the tool worked great. As for the starter you have two choice to really have no problems you can change the gear to the ols style or install comp releases in the head. I amnot sure where the cut off is but when you get over 190 cylinder psi you will destroy the new fine tooth set up. Done it , so I had release installed for the new motor. the long ones work very well and are easy to reach. I have seen many SE heads that where not as close as they should have been as far as CC's. I guess I look at it like you need to check every thing.

The SE 211 cam in a 1550 HC piston and a good set of heads is a 100 hp package. I myself would spend the money on having your heads done verse's SE heads. More bang for your buck. The 257 cam is nice but a RPM cam without a doubt and very lumpy sound. The 257 in a 1550 would require a good amount of compression more in the range of 10.5.1 + to run well. Less and the bottom end is soft. The cam bleeds off a large amount of that compression. Very sharp exhaust note as well.

I hope this helps

 

[vpoirier]

I have a Softail which is the B motor , Would you recomend the 211 with 10.1 or 10.5:1? I'm thinking the 211 would be good at10:1 with its 45 degree intake closeing. Would the 211 cause starter problems at 10.5:1. I can't go back now I bought the SE heads. I don't think I'm a fan of the 257s because the b motor should not go over 6000, in my opinion my ignition will be set around 5800. Do you have an opinion on the tw50? it is 510 lift with 48 degree intake closeing with 248/252 duration. Sounds like the 211 would be on a little earier because of intake closeing. Maybe i'm wrong.

 

[HDWRENCH]

With the 211 cam the case's will have to be cut to clear the lobes on the cam. My self I use Bob woods cams. He has adrews cut them to his spec's. As for RPMs 6200 is the limit the RPM is not the killer on the B motors as is sudden shut down of the throttle at high load. We have seen several spun balancers or should I say sprockets. The sprockets spin on the crank. Thye where all caused by max throttle in 2 or 3 rd gear and shutting it down to a several de-acceleration the weight of the balancers spun up cause's the sprocket to slip on the crank. Hd designed it to give at his point but if you ride hard like me ,..Mine is welded to fix this problem.\


The 211 has a very close spec to the cam you are describing.

 

[vpoirier]

the 203 has a 510 lift intake and a 483 exhaust lift.
the 211 has a 508 intake and exhaust, am I missing something on the cutting of the case
I heard that the ballencer bearings can't handle a sustained rpm over 6000

 

[HDWRENCH]

check your PM

 

[Kags]

FTR getting rid of the black wrinkle (if you have it) in the chambers is a good idea. Get it out og the exhaust ports as well. If you have silver, polish the chamber, it helps reduce pinging and carbin build up. In other words even the S/E heads need porting work to make them flow there best.

 

[PEB]

HD Wrench
I've been following this cam upgrade subject on another BB for about a year now and never once did the subject of having to clear a cam over an SE 203 on the "B" motor ever get memtioned. I'm no tech, but about ready to do this mod along with the BB. I thought I had all the bases covered and now I hear I have to cut the case?

 

[Kags]

Not having a 'B" engine I have not seen that problem but hears what I think. A simple dremel tool would make quick work of any case casting that causes problems. Maybe it so easy that why you nevery heard of it?

 

[vpoirier]

Yes, I agree, HDwench said that zippers has a tool that takes care of that. And also a dremil tool would also work. I think I like the 211 cam with the flat tops and the SE heads. That would give me 10:1 with corrected compression around 9:1 with the 211's. Anybody looking for a new set of 37b's.
KAGS, can you explain a bit more on cleaning up the SE heads, black rinkle Whats FTR. Polishing chamber?

 

[supersport]

Most likely the black wrinkle paint on the combustion chambers will be gone in short order due to the high temps produced by the combustion events. Have you ever seen the paint stay on the drive side of a turbocharger for long? I wouldn't be too concerned with this! If you really want to make her sing send your SE heads out to Jerry Branch or BC Gerolomy and have them clean up the ports and runners. They are already shaved .010" to begin with so don't have them milled any further.

Or just run them as is. I've got no complaints with mine.

 

[bluedyna]

SE Heads

Supersport,
I'm having a 100+ HP TC motor built soon for my 2000 fxdx. I was curious as to whether or not you are running roller rockers or have the stock rocker arms in your engine? I'm having my machinist do the head work instead of purchasing a set of SE heads. I also think that going that route is the most bang for the buck.

 

[supersport]

bluedyna,

I am running the SE roller rockers to circumvent any potential binding/excessive side loading of the valve stems due to the .569 lift cams. Nothing wrong with doin' up the stock heads so long as the machinist is reputable. Are you going up in valve size?

 

[Kags]

supersport you must of never seen S/E heads that have been run without any work. Fact is the carbin builds up so quickly the the hight temp paint becomes one and the same. The wrinkle finsh acts as a cataless for rapied carbin build up. Not a problem just the rough finish robbs a little HP.
For The Record a polished chamber is a power builder, but for how long? I feal (as well as alot others) polshed chambers keeps down the amout carbin build up for a long time. This helps keep the head temp down & premote longer engine life. Getting rid of casting flaws is the same old story even for S/E heads. Why dose S/E offer CNC ported heads? because they work & H-D was missing out of a huge proformance market. Ported head is the only way to fly...

 

[bluedyna]

Supersport,
Yes, I will be going up in valve size. I will also be running the same roller rocker arms in my engine. With all the money I'm dumping into the engine I want it to last a while. My machinist is very reputable. He's excellent at what he does - many years of experience. He did a job on a 98 Dyna for me a few years ago. The guy has an evo powered FXR that he built that smokes V-Rods. BTW - I can't seem to find your other engine mod posts - could you please point me in the right direction? Thanks.

 

[supersport]

Bluedyna,

Rather than dig through the old posts I'll just list the mods... Black '99 FXDX: 95 cu. in.,10.5 to 1 hi. comp. forged pistons, SE heads, SE 257 cams, adj. push rods, roller rockers, SE 6200 RPM race ign., black powdercoat KuryAkyn Hypercharger, Keihin CV w/Thunderslide and 48 slow/195 main jets, Samson Street Sweepers w/torque cones.


Where in NY are you located?

 

[bluedyna]

Supersport,
I was away for a few days so I couldn't respond. In any case, thanks for listing your engine's recipe for success. I'm going along the same lines except I'll be using a Mikuni HR 45 carb and a Supertrapp 2 into 1 pipe. BTW - I live in Wappingers Falls, Dutchess Co. - approx. 70 miles north of NYC.