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Screamin' Eagle
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39 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am still finalizing the components of my SE 95 build. I was interested in feedback on the SE-211 vs. the SE-253 on a 95", SE flat-tops, SE MCR heads running 10:1. I have the SERT and plan on switching to V&H Pro Pipes. I am interested if the 253 would be a good match for this build or if the 211 is the better choice of the two.

Feedback?

Cheers.
 

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Premium Member
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Are you wedded to the SE parts? Do you know anyone else who has done the build you are planning with either of the cam choices you are considering? I ask only because if you aren't experienced enough to pick and choose components, HD will sell you anything and you may find out after laying out a lot of $$$ the components don't work well together or there are better values in the aftermarket for what you want to accomplish.

Consider giving Doug Coffey a call at Head-Quarters. He's a no BS guy; been building powerful, reliable and affordable Harley power for about 30 years, and has a package for your bike that is good for 110+/110+ hp/torque:

http://www.head-quarters.com/html/tc95_kits.html
 

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Infidel
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1,428 Posts
10:1 compression really isn't enough compression for either of those cams and especially the 253. For the 211 ideal would be around 10.3:1 and the 253 would be better off left at the dealer, not much of a performance cam and not designed for 95".
 

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Screamin' Eagle
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39 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Harleypingman said:
Are you wedded to the SE parts? Do you know anyone else who has done the build you are planning with either of the cam choices you are considering? I ask only because if you aren't experienced enough to pick and choose components, HD will sell you anything and you may find out after laying out a lot of $$$ the components don't work well together or there are better values in the aftermarket for what you want to accomplish.
I am fairly wedded to the SE parts, as this is something that I have always wanted to do, as in an SE build. I realize and accept the cost, and the pros and cons. I also know that the cam will be at the heart. Now, one of my other options is to kick up my scoot to 10.5:1 with different pistons if that's a better route for the 211 or more agressive 253 cam... or... staying at the 10:1 mark and doing a Wood T6, which I know would be a good choice. This thread wasn't intended to start the entire cam discussion again, as that's be wonderfully covered in other threads. I was just looking if anyone here had experience with the SE-253.

Best. - Eric
 

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Screamin' Eagle
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39 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
SEDELUXE said:
Eric its not just the cam as discussed by toten in another thread. its the whole pkg if you are just doing a se build and must have those cams (253 and 211) just bumping up the compression wil most likely yeild a ping monster. i sent you a pm give them a call at this point your just looking and it wont cost ya nothing. HQ will also give you sound advice. Most guys who have went the se route had marginal results as others had good ones. If the dealer is doing the build make sure the cylinders and pistons are at zero deck .030 head gasket and get the heads ported from a good porter get compression releases installed and go with the higher comp for 211.
also in your sig i see some power robbing pipes you will actually lose power and tq with those pipes . imo now remember its just my opinion if it were me i would not even touch the motor any more i would leave it stock if those pipes were being used.
The pipes will be gone with the build. I was looking at supertrapps, thunderheaders, and v&h pro pipes. I didn't like the sound of the supertrapps, and people in the area running thunderheaders are getting bothered, thus I'm leaning towards the pro pipes. The pipes on the bike are what I bought it with and didn't spend money on it. The only thing I've done was get the SERT and have an initial tune. I bought the bike for a steal this summer because the person didn't like how it ran.

Now... for my matters.

I can run forged HC pistons hitting 10.5:1 or I can do the SE flat-tops at 10:1. I'm still undecided on the best cam to get the "job" done of adding some zip to the ride when loaded with my wife on it.

I don't want to interfere with "rideability" or create a ping-monster, and don't want to go into something really high-lift. The SE-211 is very similar in lift and duration to the T6, the 253 is a bit more aggressive but usually used in 96+ builds.

I'm not only doing my research here but elsewhere online and face-to-face. My goal it getting "right" the first time around and understanding what exactly I am getting for each component in the ride.

This group has been great and through the controversy and passion, I am very much enjoying and appreciating all of the feedback.
 

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ummm, there are other cam choices in the SE family. If you are wedded to the SE family, what about the 257? Should work good with the other components you have suggested....
 

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Eric,,try Asking,has Anyone Used A 253se??

Hey Eric, I'm watching this thread very close. I, also am going to be running 10.5 comp. wisecos and I just pick up a SE 253 cam used for $35. For $35 bucks I'll try it but it wouldn't be for a few months but if someone has first hand experence w/ this cam PLEASE let us know. The guy I bought them from told me they were in a Screaming Eagle 2003 road king and it moved. He said time for an upgrade so he build a bigger faster TC.
 

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Se Cams

If your dead set on the use of SE cams id stick the 251's in there. They work pretty decent. I just watched a bagger at the dyno drags over at Street Vibrations in Reno NV. click off 3 105 hp runs with those very cams. Also a 95in engines with 10.5-1 comp. ~!Awesome!
 

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I would say the better of the 95" cams have not been explored here, the SE251 @10.5/1 or the SE257 @11/1
Both are contenders in a lighter bike and a lot of fun when all the factory sloppyness is fixed and the heads breath well.
Of course as always pipe and tune are paramount.
 

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Infidel
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Eric, the SE253 cam is NOT a performance cam. It is supplied with the SE 103 inch kits and is EPA compliant or at least semi-compliant. Look at the intake timing specs 7/52 degrees. At first glance the 52 degree closing looks like a performance cam but the 7 degree intake opening is just wierd...no other cam (performance) that I know of has this late of an opening timing. If sticking to SE cams you would be much better served by the SE-204's, 211's, 251's, and 257's. For your Super Glide of those four I like the 251's and 257's the best. Both will need more than 10:1 compression to be successful. Most cam companies copy each other when someones comes up with a good cam...NOBODY has bothered to even loosely copy the 251, that should speak volumes!
 

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Seems to me from the numbers that the 253 would need a lot of compression, like 10.5 or more (better 10.8 or more). So with 10.1 cr, I'd go with the 211s if I were choosing between the two. On the other hand, I think the 211 would be more sensitive to exhaust choice than the 253 would be. JMUO
 

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The OTHER White Meat.
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My goal it getting "right" the first time around...

Ah, I'm not trying to stir the pot, and I'm not an expert, but from what I have read from experts here, like Doc and Tote, the above statement and the full SE rout are a non sequitur.
 

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Screamin' Eagle
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Discussion Starter #13
Gulfstream said:
Eric, the SE253 cam is NOT a performance cam. It is supplied with the SE 103 inch kits and is EPA compliant or at least semi-compliant. Look at the intake timing specs 7/52 degrees. At first glance the 52 degree closing looks like a performance cam but the 7 degree intake opening is just wierd...no other cam (performance) that I know of has this late of an opening timing. If sticking to SE cams you would be much better served by the SE-204's, 211's, 251's, and 257's. For your Super Glide of those four I like the 251's and 257's the best. Both will need more than 10:1 compression to be successful. Most cam companies copy each other when someones comes up with a good cam...NOBODY has bothered to even loosely copy the 251, that should speak volumes!
I noticed and questioned this about the 253. It is the only cam that was so short on the intake open. Based on the feedback I'm leaning towards the 211 in my build. I didn't want to get into something as high of lift as the 251s and or as high of compression as on the 257s.

I'd buy everyone a round if I could. Thanks for all of the feedback.
 

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What makes you think the 211 by virtue of less lift can run well with lower compression. Every 211 motor I have been around that could hold it's own had compression in the mid tens at least.
 

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Screamin' Eagle
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Discussion Starter #15
nw_guy4_fun said:
What makes you think the 211 by virtue of less lift can run well with lower compression. Every 211 motor I have been around that could hold it's own had compression in the mid tens at least.
After reviewing information on the HQ site, and looking at information on Woods cams and then the SE cams, I came to the following, and possibly inaccurate, conclusion.

Since the SE-211 is very similar to the Woods T6, which is targeted to 10:1, and the fact that HQ stated 10:1 is suitable for "touring" - compression ratio of 10:1 and should be used on Baggers and heavy Softail models used for two up riding in regions that have steep grades and/or lower octane fuels. (under 91 octane).

I thought 10:1 and the SE-211 would be a good match. It is an easy option to through the SE forged HC pistons in my build for another $100 and hit 10.5:1 is that would be a better fit for the build, though am looking at something for not only my fun (read mild hot-rodding) but also for touring with the wife and bags loaded.

Does this make any sense? Any merit in starting another compression compared to desired riding attributes?
 

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Well what works well and what you can stand may be two different things.
The 211s 251s and 257s all are hot rod cams. They can be made to work in a bagger loaded but none of them would be ideal for that during all seasons and road conditions. Everyone wants the whole enchilada, everything, fat torque, easy starting, no bad manors and fast as hell. Got news, that won't happen at 95 cu in doing bagger duty without concessions. There are many economical compromises though if the goals are realistic. I would take a look at a mild high performance cam if tethered to SE, the 204. It pulls strong to 6k and has good manors and torque. Compression is easily adjusted to optimum with flat top pistons.
I would be spending the budget on a good tune and a new pipe.
 

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I'm by far no expert here but, as NW_GUY noted, I have ridden several 95", SE204 cam bikes. for the tiny bit of money it takes to build them, they run pretty darn good. Now throw out your idea of buying SE perf heads and instead spend $300 and send yours to big boyz(see to the right =>) and you'll have a nice, peppy, well mannered all around package for under $1K
 

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"Jane you ignorant slut!"
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I like to beat the drum for the SE251, even though it can be valve noisey.

Built right, (95", Baisley heads, Pro-pipe, good tune). It is a great build for a heavy bike. Came on the interstate fast, once in 5th it was like an automatic. Down to 40mph, roll on and pulled like an animal. This was with SE pistons also.

This would give you your SE build and a great ride. I didn't use compression releases, but it wouldn't hurt to have them. Now I say this using Dan Baisley for the build, not sure how other shops would come out. I've heard some others say the SE251 as a marginal cam, then in my opinion the total build was not done right.

Chris
 

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merc1100sc said:
I'm by far no expert here but, as NW_GUY noted, I have ridden several 95", SE204 cam bikes. for the tiny bit of money it takes to build them, they run pretty darn good. Now throw out your idea of buying SE perf heads and instead spend $300 and send yours to big boyz(see to the right =>) and you'll have a nice, peppy, well mannered all around package for under $1K
I would say that you also have to put compression releases in the heads. The flattops could be a better choice if you can't run the .030 gasket (for Quench) because of c/r. If you have too high of a c/r, you can have the dome pistons milled a little.
 

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"others say the SE251 as a marginal cam"

That would not be me I liked it enough to have one ground custom in gear drive. I notice the poster has a Dyna, so this cam could work. I like them all and can get them all to work (if forced to by no aftermarket parts) but would be adjusting things to suit the build such as CR, quench, and head porting. The SE251 is not a torque cam contrary to the SE advertising literature. When the CR is upped to 10.5/1 or slightly higher the low end can be bolstered but really nothing really starts to come alive until 3k. With all the right gear this cam can pull to 7k if the breathing from all aspects is optimized, plus mechanical details worked out to allow that. Few see that and most SE251 builds barely break 100/100. Why Bother?
as proof I cite all the dynos on the Latus Motors website for SE251 dynos and their old dyno was a little "happy"
There are easier, less expensive, more wide torque curve solutions to get that.
While surfing the net take a look at Deweys site for SE257 (TW67G) 95" builds, very impressive, BTW the Andrews TW67g is a gear drive version of the SE257.
 
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