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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know this topic has probably been debated into the ground but I need a little help. I have a 2006 Night Train that is fuel injected. I have Samson Big Guns 3 short slashers that I am going to put on the bike. The HD tech told me that I need to get the screamin eagle race tuner before I install the pipes. I asked about the Power Comander, he told me that the power comander is good but it is only a "round about way" of solving the problems. I was told that with the race tuner my bike would run at Optimum horsepower and effeciency. Can some one give me a little advice.

Thanks
Todd
 

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The way I understand it is that the PC does not directly interface with the computer in the bike... it is like a hack... and there is small lag time for the PC to kick in. The SERT on the other hand directly links up to your bikes, brain because it was designed to be an integral part of the system.

I have also heard that the PC will void the warranty and didn't want to take any chances or be bothered with taking it off when it came time for service.

My bike was serviced this last weekend and the dealer ran the dyno on it... I couldn't be happier with the results.

People who truly know what they are talking about will be around shortly to set you and I straight...
 

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Total Nutcase
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The SERT is a device that allows you to actually alter the settings inside the ECM. You use the SERT to reprogram your bike by creating a custom map on a computer then uploading it into the stock ECM.

The SERT does not bolt onto your bike. It is just software and the required cables to connect a computer to your ECM. Once the ECM is reprogrammed, you disconnect the SERT. The SERT software resides on your computer. You can ride with the SERT attached (and a laptop in a saddlebag) and log data from your engine, then you can use that data to fine tune your map. Once the tuning session is over, you disconnect the SERT.

The PCIII bolts to the bike, and intercepts the signals from the stock ECM. It intercepts the stock signals, then uses it's own settings to send a new signal to your injectors, etc.. The PCIII also uses computer generated maps and you can download maps on the net and upload them to your bike's PCIII. You can also create your own maps.

Using either device, the bike can be tuned with a dyno to get the best performance. I plan to buy a SERT, but there are good points to both systems.
 

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@gree: with both of the above responses.

I just ordered my SERT from Zanotti's $376 (with shippping)...can't wait to get everything installed (AN Big Sucker, Khrome Werks Slip-ons, and SERT).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Is it possible to tune your stock ECM to after-market pipes without the race tuner. For example: I put some Samson short slashers on my bike without adjusting anything. Within 3 miles the rear pipe was red hot from the block to about 8 inches down the pipe. I am very lucky that samson warrantied the damage to the pipes and sent me a new set.
 

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slatan22 said:
Is it possible to tune your stock ECM to after-market pipes without the race tuner. For example: I put some Samson short slashers on my bike without adjusting anything. Within 3 miles the rear pipe was red hot from the block to about 8 inches down the pipe. I am very lucky that samson warrantied the damage to the pipes and sent me a new set.
You can get in the ballpark with a download map at a cost of $150 each time you change a part... but this catch all approach is as you might expect... limited, however, better than your approach of doing nothing.

With the SERT, you tune the bike as it sits with whatever you have put on it. Of course, this assumes your gaggle of parts were meant to swim together in the first place.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks 8-ball. I don't really have any plans of modifying my engine. I just want my bike to sound like a Harley and not a moped! Things I want to avoid are damaging my engine or discoloring my pipes by taking shortcuts to save a $100.
 

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If you're not planning any major mods, you might consider a DFO which will allow you to adjust fuel delivery. Harley sells one called the Race Fueler or there are a few more aftermarket ones. It fits under your seat and can be adjusted with a screwdriver.
 

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The Anti-RUB
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I agree with the above posts. The PCIII and the SERT will do what you want. I recommend the SERT mainly because it allows for more adjustments and a finer tune of your bike. What I did with my '06 NT was install the SERT with the map that was closest to my setup, install the SE Stage-1 A/C, and then the pipes. Once everything was done, only then did I start the bike up. Very simple.

It is recommended that after about 1000 miles, allowing the bike to break-in the new parts etc, you get the bike dyno'd. The map that comes with the SERT (or even a PCIII) is only a close approximation of what your bike setup is. Having it dyno'd will dile it in perfectly. Good luck...
 

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Hellbound Train
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slatan22 said:
Thanks 8-ball. I don't really have any plans of modifying my engine. I just want my bike to sound like a Harley and not a moped! Things I want to avoid are damaging my engine or discoloring my pipes by taking shortcuts to save a $100.
Get the Dealer Stage 1 flash and you will be happy.
 

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csoday said:
Get the Dealer Stage 1 flash and you will be happy.
I had the 'stealer' stage one flash and I was extremely UNHAPPY. Take that $150, add another $200 to it and get yourself a SERT. If you ever do any mods to the bike, you'll be going right back to the dealer for another $150 download that's still guaranteed to be lean in the fuel department. Get the SERT, have it dyno'd and be done with it. Take it from someone who went the $150 dealer download way. I hate to admit it, but my scoot was running so poorly after the download, I had another dealer check to make sure the correct map was loaded in. It was but it still cost me another $50 to have it verified.
Oh yeah. The SERT dropped the running temperature of my bike 20*. The stage one download did nothing for the running temp.
 

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Krayven Sumhead said:
I had the 'stealer' stage one flash and I was extremely UNHAPPY. Take that $150, add another $200 to it and get yourself a SERT. If you ever do any mods to the bike, you'll be going right back to the dealer for another $150 download that's still guaranteed to be lean in the fuel department. Get the SERT, have it dyno'd and be done with it. Take it from someone who went the $150 dealer download way. I hate to admit it, but my scoot was running so poorly after the download, I had another dealer check to make sure the correct map was loaded in. It was but it still cost me another $50 to have it verified.
Oh yeah. The SERT dropped the running temperature of my bike 20*. The stage one download did nothing for the running temp.
absolute truth here. there are others-----i use zippers thundermax.the dtt or terrys works well.
moco downloads are always lean because they too have to meet epa.
 

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Hellbound Train
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An EPA download MIGHT be lean (not enough to harm anything) but 80% of the people that go Stage 1 are happy with it. If he were considering more mods (he has stated twice he wasn't) I would also suggest the SERT.
 

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Hellbound Train
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Let me clarify:
The Stage 1 Flash raises the Rev Limit from 5,800 RPM to 6,200 RPM plus advances the ignition curve and adds fuel. With some pipes the Flash is all you need. In some cases, you will need more fuel, that's where the fuelers (DFO, TFI and SE Race Fueler) come in.

These devices also have their disadvantages. In some cases, reduced mileage because they are fuel adders. They are also one more device to fail. They are not capable of affecting the de-cel enleanment tables which means you can still have popping and back firing.

The next step up (in $ and capabilities) is the SERT or PCIII.
I have two problems with the PCIII; first it does not raise the Rev Limit (they have been promising to correct that since May of last year). Second, it is a separate unit that is added to the output of the stock ECM. If it fails, you are back to a stock tuned ECM.
This is why I recommend the SERT; it has all the capabilities of all of the above, from Stage 1 flashes to custom mapping. It does this by reprogramming your bikes ECM. Plus it has more, such as data logging which can be used to find problems and show you where to make changes to your maps.

You do have the next option which requires more $$. That is a Closed Loop Tuner such as the Daytona Twin Tech. It has the same capabilities as the SERT but does all the tuning automatically. It is not my area of expertise but there are a few here on the forums that use it.

For those that consider an S&S or Zippers. They are great if you are building a bike and need an ECM. Other than that, why bother.

This is my standard answer to any and all EFI calibration hardware questions.
 

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Power Commander

I wuz wondering......The guys that are running the PC's.....I read about everyone taking them off before they go in for servicing (for warranty purposes).....What if you are a 1,000 miles from home and the bike breaks down.....start disassembling it on the side of the road? If the engine is built and the ECM isn't flashed correctly......and the PC has been taken off.....what then?

And I believe that 80% being satisfied with the 'stage one download' is extreme. I ride with two other guys occasionally. The both have the 'stage one downloads on stock 88's , like me (cept I'm running the SERT). After riding my scoot and me blowing by them on the e-way, they are now getting SERTS.
Both their scoots still pop back thru the throttle bodies and misfire. Plus as I said before, their running temperature are at least 20* higher than mine.
 

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This may be overlooked by some people, so at the risk of stating the obvious: If you decide on the SERT, you will also need a laptop computer with Windows OS, or a PC somewhere near your bike to download the maps.
 

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Hellbound Train
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Krayven,
I don't dispute that there is more power to be tapped but if you look at the majority of threads in the exhaust forum, all they want is LOUD, HARLEY SOUND and LOUDEST. Some people just want different pipes. The recurring thought is, they don't care about power, they just want new pipes and in some cases an A/C. For them I say Flash. Sure it's a little lean, but not enough to do harm and they still get a performance boost over stock. They would also have to spend $200-$400 more for a Fuel adder or PCIII or SERT and even more for Dyno time. And for what, 3-7 more HP on a stock engine. They can spend that money on chrome. That is all most riders want.
 
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