[cgav8tor]

Greetings,
I am a newbie, been riding for over a decade, since I was 18, but I never thought I would be a Harley rider. I am now. I just purchased a 2005 HD Springer Classic Injected. Love the bike, have only had it 1 week.
Now that winter is among us in the Northeast, It is time to get to the mods.
I love the look of have a pipe on each side. I have been reading through the archives looking for the wisdom I need. I also want the fishtail look on the ends. I am typically known for having the loudest bike in the group. I would like some music to be heard from my bike. I digress, let me get to the question. Two sides:
Pipes: I am leaning toward the Samson True Duals. My first question is can I get them basically straight pipes to a fish tail. I dont want any baffles. I understand that a little back pressure is good, but I cant restrict the true sound of a Harley. I am willing to sacrifice a little. I also plan on doing the air cleaner and all when I do this. I definitely want the true duals with fishtails, it is more a matter of finding some that are loud as all hell and good quality. I have been seeing everyone go with hookers, or rinehart. Do any of these have webpages, I have been searching with minimal success. Any of you fellow true dual riders have pictures of what your running, how you like them and also some noise wisdom on your pipes, please help a new harley guy land on his feet the first time out.
SERT: Being a mech myself, it sounds like the Screamin Eagle Race Tuner(SERT) is the way to go. I plan on plugging into a laptop. How painful is the process? Do I have to have Harley install it? Any negatives to the SERT?
Where is the best place to purchase one from?
Thanks for any possible wisdom you can provide. It is an honor to join the ranks.
Dodge the pendulum.
Thanks
Dave
Cape Cod, MA

 

[cliebold]

you should be able to purchase samson slipon fistails with removable baffles. go to www.krooners.com they have goten me the best prices on most of what I have purchased from them. Look up the part number on the sampson site and email rachael at kroones and she will give you a price. Saved me a bunch.

 

[SYCLONE]

You will find that 1) the true duals will cause you to lose some low end ...we
can fix that with the SERT. 2) no baffles will cause a BIG drop in low end torque that you cant fix..short of adding some restriction for some back pressure. On this point..if you want it loud..and deep , and want no bafles in the mufflers..consider a set of Big City Thundermonster baffles installed in the head pipes just before the open mufflers. True duals with no baffles at all will give you the loudest bike riding at the BACK of the pack. A stock Classic would run away from it.
You can use the SERT to get the bike safely ( not too lean) tuned , and eliminate any popping..probably about 90 percent there. Should eventually go on a dyno with "qualified" tuner

 

[pasto27774]

I have an '05 Softail Springer Calssic with EFI and have the Sampson True Duals with the baffles - you need the some back presssure with the EFI. I have a K&N filter in and will be installing a DFO next Spring to get a richer misture (I have some slight popping on decel). The Sampsons are great pipes - nice sound. They gotton louder with age. The fit/finish is very good. I would recommend them.

 

[cgav8tor]

Thunderhead solution???

Thanks for the responses. That is what I expected.
I have been following some of the other postings about the Thundercity products. Will the Thundercity mod produce the back pressure I need to be able to run without a baffle?
Also, Is the baffle in the Samson True Dual Fishtails removable?
I am thinking the solution may be ot buy them with the baffle and remove it if I desire, and if the Thundercity product solves the back pressure issue.
Thoughts?????
Thanks

 

[mori55]

I have the new samson fishtails on my 05 deluxe with a stage 1 and dfo. Samson website says theses pipes are designed for the efi bikes. Only thing i know is my bike runs great with these pipes. I had V&H bigshot longs on before and the bike runs the same if not better, but to me sounds better to me. I have the brand new for 06 model pipes and there are no baffles to remove when you look in the pipe you can see straight through.The rev tech dfo cured all my decel popping with out having to use a sert plus it is safe to use.The only thing it does is to let you richen the fuel mixture up, it does nothing else with the timing or anything.
I really don,t understand the back of the pack comment, my bike runs fine with these pipes i haven't lost any performance that i can feel at all. I not one of theses guys who run to the dealer or dyno all the time.I think after awhile worrying about a couple of HP here and there will drive you nuts.

 

[05Deluxe]

I have the new samson fishtails on my 05 deluxe with a stage 1 and dfo. Samson website says theses pipes are designed for the efi bikes. Only thing i know is my bike runs great with these pipes. I had V&H bigshot longs on before and the bike runs the same if not better, but to me sounds better to me. I have the brand new for 06 model pipes and there are no baffles to remove when you look in the pipe you can see straight through.The rev tech dfo cured all my decel popping with out having to use a sert plus it is safe to use.The only thing it does is to let you richen the fuel mixture up, it does nothing else with the timing or anything.
I really don,t understand the back of the pack comment, my bike runs fine with these pipes i haven't lost any performance that i can feel at all. I not one of theses guys who run to the dealer or dyno all the time.I think after awhile worrying about a couple of HP here and there will drive you nuts.

I'm pretty sure the "back of the pack" comment was in regards to noise level. Have you been on a nice long ride directly behind the guy with the obnoxiously loud drag pipes? It rattles your teeth...

I couldn't agree more with your comment about a couple pf HP here and there. I want a nice looking and reliable bike that won't embarrass me by being a complete dog. I guess though that there are those who like to get to a really high speed really fast and test out the high performance brakes they put on when they go by the cop on the side of the road… Not me, 90 is fast enough!

 

[mori55]

I'm pretty sure the "back of the pack" comment was in regards to noise level. Have you been on a nice long ride directly behind the guy with the obnoxiously loud drag pipes? It rattles your teeth...

I couldn't agree more with your comment about a couple pf HP here and there. I want a nice looking and reliable bike that won't embarrass me by being a complete dog. I guess though that there are those who like to get to a really high speed really fast and test out the high performance brakes they put on when they go by the cop on the side of the road… Not me, 90 is fast enough!

Yeah i got the back of the pack comment wrong. But to me it seems like so many guys are addicted to the dyno , that if it wasn't for the dyno they wouldn't even realize a couple of HP.
Whats annoying to me is two times i have been on a run and had a person next to me on a Honda without mufflers, i don't know what it is but the sound is annoying. I have nothing against Hondas but without mufflers they sound like there missing or somthing.

 

[05Deluxe]

Yeah i got the back of the pack comment wrong. But to me it seems like so many guys are addicted to the dyno , that if it wasn't for the dyno they wouldn't even realize a couple of HP.
Whats annoying to me is two times i have been on a run and had a person next to me on a Honda without mufflers, i don't know what it is but the sound is annoying. I have nothing against Hondas but without mufflers they sound like there missing or somthing.

The last run I was on, the loudest (and most annoying) bike there was a Suzuki Cruiser of some sort. For all the money he spent to make it look and sound like a Harley (which it didn't), he could have just bought a FLST or a RK. There were quite a few comments about him "compensating" for something...

 

[barrygreen]

I have the same bike with the Samson True Duals/Fishtails #S-430
along with the SE air filter and the PCIIIusb. Looks good, sounds good
and I get alot of compliments. I did also add the HD round air cleaner cover
to add a little more "Old Skool" look:Banadance

 

[Laing]

My first post - several questions. I have an 05 FLSTSCI with the SE mufflers (w/sharkfin tips), intake w/round aircleaner, and the stage 1 ECU reprogram. I just turned over 10,000 miles and have decided that the bike is just a little too quiet. I was looking into the new Sampson true duals with fishtails. I do not want a loud bike, but a little more sound would be nice. How loud are they? Are the long versions quieter than the short ones? Does anyone know what the pipe size is - 1-3/4"? -2"? Until I get the SERT, will the current program work with the Sampson set-up?

 

[SYCLONE]

Yeah i got the back of the pack comment wrong. But to me it seems like so many guys are addicted to the dyno , that if it wasn't for the dyno they wouldn't even realize a couple of HP.
Whats annoying to me is two times i have been on a run and had a person next to me on a Honda without mufflers, i don't know what it is but the sound is annoying. I have nothing against Hondas but without mufflers they sound like there missing or somthing.

The "back of the pack" comment was in reference to performance when running true-duals and mufflers with baffles removed ...loud as hell...slow as hell with NO low end torque.

 

[mori55]

The "back of the pack" comment was in reference to performance when running true-duals and mufflers with baffles removed ...loud as hell...slow as hell with NO low end torque.

Sorry to disagree but that's not the case with my samsons, now maybe the 'new' ones by samson are different but my bike runs the same as it did with the V&H bigshot longs , if not better. Plus my pipes are not loud as hell.

 

[SYCLONE]

Sorry to disagree but that's not the case with my samsons, now maybe the 'new' ones by samson are different but my bike runs the same as it did with the V&H bigshot longs , if not better. Plus my pipes are not loud as hell.

So I understand correctly....you are running Samson dual head pipes with slip=on mufflers with the baffles removed...no restriction for back pressure anywhere ??? and it's not loud ???

 

[JamieWG]

SERT: Being a mech myself, it sounds like the Screamin Eagle Race Tuner(SERT) is the way to go. I plan on plugging into a laptop. How painful is the process? Do I have to have Harley install it? Any negatives to the SERT?
Where is the best place to purchase one from?
Thanks for any possible wisdom you can provide. It is an honor to join the ranks.
Dodge the pendulum.
Thanks
Dave
Cape Cod, MA

The SERT is just a device that allows you to connect a computer to your ECM via serial port. It includes the software to change the settings in your ECM. You'll probably want to use a laptop computer so you can record data while riding the bike. You don't need HD to install it because nothing is actually installed. You put the software onto your laptop, then use the hardware to connect to your bike's ECM. You record data, analyze it, make changes, then disconnect it and go riding. Nothing is added to the bike and nothing is installed. No wiring changes, no hidden boxes. From what I've been told, the SERT CD contains several ready made EFI maps to help you get started.

If you want to read up on the SERT and decide if it's over your head, then check out this link. It's the SERT manual and instructions. 126 pages of info. The first part basically describes how EFI works and the second half tells you how to utilize the SERT to tune your bike.

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/HDtechtips/racetuner.pdf

Have fun and don't fall asleep reading it. I recommend a strong cup of coffee before you click the link...

I've read it a couple of times and I plan to buy a SERT in the spring. I'm pretty confident that I can use it safely without a dyno. Check it out and see what you think.

 

[mori55]

So I understand correctly....you are running Samson dual head pipes with slip=on mufflers with the baffles removed...no restriction for back pressure anywhere ??? and it's not loud ???

I think were misunderstanding each other. My pipes are the new model samson fishtails, they don't have a seperate muffler like the old ones. If you look in my pipe you can see straight through no baffle but the pipe isn't that loud no louder than my V&H bigshot longs. I guess their like the old glass packs that you put on cars. Sorry about not being clear on that.

 

[SYCLONE]

I think were misunderstanding each other. My pipes are the new model samson fishtails, they don't have a seperate muffler like the old ones. If you look in my pipe you can see straight through no baffle but the pipe isn't that loud no louder than my V&H bigshot longs. I guess their like the old glass packs that you put on cars. Sorry about not being clear on that.

You're correct on the confusion. But In his original post..he wants to run no baffles at all. Thats where I was trying to convince him of the loss of all the low end torque he would have...lots of mufflers with baffles you can look straight through...but they are still in there doing their job.

 

[Laing]

Thanks for the SERT link. Very helpful.

 

[Mr. Z]

I first became aware of the new Samson true dual fishtails for Softails on this thread. The advantage of these new pipes are that they have a very attractive total system price [$600 list, I actually paid $450], they have a full heat shield, and they come in two configurations of length and two end configurations. They also advertize an internal non-removable baffle. So, having a long time lust for the true dual look for my highly customized 03 Heritage, I ordered a set. I was surprised to find that the baffle looks like 4-6 inches of the cheese grater baffle with the old bolt across the pipe trick to help create the needed back pressure. I have been running V&H Big Shot Longs with the Thunder Monster baffle that would be similiar to those in the the Sampsons. I have the PCIII USB with a custom map for the V&H piipes. After a long discussion with the tuner that did the original map at the SLC HD shop, I now understand that a new custom map for the true duals is a must. The advantage of the current version of the PC is that you can create an advanced map that builds a fuel map for the rear and front cylinder separately. This is a must for the true duals [they have lots of experience with the Rhinehart and Bassanni true duals]. All of that will happen for me after Christmas. I know in advance that I will give up some performance for this form over function diversion, but it is worth it to me. At least I will have a fuel map that will give me an accurate A/F ratio for both cylinders.

BZ

 

[Mr. Z]

I first became aware of the new Samson true dual fishtails for Softails on this thread. The advantage of these new pipes are that they have a very attractive total system price [$600 list, I actually paid $450], they have a full heat shield, and they come in two configurations of length and two end configurations. They also advertise an internal non-removable baffle. So, having a long time lust for the true dual look for my highly customized 03 Heritage, I ordered a set. I was surprised to find that the baffle looks like 4-6 inches of the cheese grater baffle with the old bolt across the pipe trick to help create the needed back pressure. I have been running V&H Big Shot Longs with the Thunder Monster baffle that would be similiar to those in the Sampsons. I have the PCIII USB with a custom map for the V&H piipes. After a long discussion with the tuner that did the original map at the SLC HD shop, I now understand that a new custom map for the true duals is a must. The flexiblilty of the current version of the PC allows you to create an advanced map that builds a fuel map for the rear and front cylinder separately. This is a must for the true duals [they have lots of experience with the Rhinehart and Bassanni true duals]. All of that will happen for me after Christmas. I know in advance that I will give up some performance for this form over function diversion, but it is worth it to me. At least I will have a fuel map that will give me an accurate A/F ratio for both cylinders.

BZ