S&S NGV - Long Live Air Cooled

1462 Views 22 Replies 11 Participants Last post by fastappy, Jan 21, 2006

fastappy

Discussion Starter · Jan 17, 2006 (Edited)

I read in the Feb issue of American Iron (pg#14) that S&S will be coming out with a 117" ci Air Cooled & Fuel Injected, New Generation V-Twin(NGV). It's a 56 degree motor with a "belt driven three cam layout (?)". It will meet 2008 emissions standards.

As you know, Yamaha's also elected an air cooled (113 ci / 91hp) motor for their flagship cruiser, the Roadliner. It' looks like air cooled is not going anywhere anytime soon. :beatdh: All three motors (including Harley's T.C.) utilize push rod activated, air cooled, and fuel injection.

The S&S design is totally new design from scratch, with no parts from HD.:beatdh: No mention on the performance standards at this point.

They have a photo of the prototype in American Iron. Harley has done an excellent job, above the other cruiser manufacturers, in making the radiator of the v-rod an attractive & intergrated part of the styling. Those that don't particularly care for water cooling, may still have choices for years to come. Isn't technology wonderful!:beer4u:

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

NodakGus

· #2 · Jan 17, 2006

But!

But...will the motorcycling public be able to legally alter air intake, air outtake and fuel injection mapping?

I have been keeping up with the articles in AIM Mag over this issue. It is ludicrious that a bunch of beauracrats in Washington D.C. can sit back in their boring office and dream up a bunch of new Federal regulations that will have no less than a "significant" effect on the entire motorycling industry!

Did I write "significant?" I meant "radical!"

Did I write "radical?" I meant "DEVASTATING!" :badmood:

Geezer-Glide

· #3 · Jan 18, 2006

117" motor... would you need to alter/modify the engine?

OOPS!! My bad!!!!!!!! #[email protected]

berserker

· #4 · Jan 18, 2006

Would amuseing if the S&S motot became popular, after HD sued them on there past TC modeled engine. S&S has a good rep. Though there other motors were fashioned after HD, so people were more inclined to buy.

Homesick

· #5 · Jan 19, 2006

NodakGus said:
But...will the motorcycling public be able to legally alter air intake, air outtake and fuel injection mapping?

I have been keeping up with the articles in AIM Mag over this issue. It is ludicrious that a bunch of beauracrats in Washington D.C. can sit back in their boring office and dream up a bunch of new Federal regulations that will have no less than a "significant" effect on the entire motorycling industry!

Did I write "significant?" I meant "radical!"
Did I write "radical?" I meant "DEVASTATING!" :badmood:

I'm always amazed when people are surprised by this stuff. This exact type of blundering meddlesome powergrab has been going on for scores of years. I've read on this forum that diesel engines deserve it 'cause they're so dirty (even though they're already regulated). I guess it's true that folks don't mind seeing an ox get gored, as long as it's somebody else's.

The automotive industry's been shackled with this stuff for 30 years, 2 stroke engines are history, the democratic party practices a divide and conquer strategy against the citizens, the Clintons tried to nationalize medicine, Bush wants to be everyones' daddy and protect us from ourselves, both parties are chipping away at individual and state rights; and now we're supposed to be surprised that it's our turn?

Joe

wvwayne

· #6 · Jan 19, 2006

arjonaut said:
I'm always amazed when people are surprised by this stuff. This exact type of blundering meddlesome powergrab has been going on for scores of years. I've read on this forum that diesel engines deserve it 'cause they're so dirty (even though they're already regulated). I guess it's true that folks don't mind seeing an ox get gored, as long as it's somebody else's.

The automotive industry's been shackled with this stuff for 30 years, 2 stroke engines are history, the democratic party practices a divide and conquer strategy against the citizens, the Clintons tried to nationalize medicine, Bush wants to be everyones' daddy and protect us from ourselves, both parties are chipping away at individual and state rights; and now we're supposed to be surprised that it's our turn?

Joe

Well said but it has been more than 30 years and I don't miss 2 [email protected]:

timbo

· #7 · Jan 19, 2006

I hope it all works out. It's nice to see that the engine will meet the standards. But you still have to wonder if the EPA will bless it. From what I understand, the AIM articles concerning the EPA proposals states that the entire powertrain/drivetrain from the intake to the exhaust pipes must be certified and approved as a unit not just the engine. And deviation such as changing pipes, trannys and gear ratios would be a violation. It probably wouldn't be so bad building a custom. But just replacing your HD engine with an S&S could be very costly as you would have to either have the rest of your drivetrain and exhaust tested and approved to work with it, or you would also have to change the drivetrain and exhaust to a package that was EPA approved with that engine.

As of now it's pure speculation and doom and gloom as to what the EPA is going to do. But nothing would surprise me.

See less See more

csoday

· #8 · Jan 19, 2006

Three cam, belt drive. What about the "precission timing" aspect of gear drive cams you guys are always ranting about.

newultraclassic

· #9 · Jan 19, 2006

csoday said:
Three cam, belt drive. What about the "precission timing" aspect of gear drive cams you guys are always ranting about.

I have to agree on the belts. I can't imagine a radical cam used with a belt. It surely couldn't last too long.

As to whether the new S&S engine will meet EPA standards, I think it would have to be mounted in a vehicle to be tested properly. The EPA certifies whole vehicles as to whether they meet specifications. It makes little sense to certify an engine since fuel and exhaust systems may vary.

One issue with the 56 degree engine would be that it probably won't fit in a Harley-Pattern frame. It might take the aftermarket a few months to catch up if S&S indeed can sell any of them at the prices that they charge. Only time will tell.

berserker

· #10 · Jan 20, 2006

Why would they make the engine if it doesn't fit in a frame? S&S doesn't make frames do they? Would seem like alot of work to design an engine that is only good in custom built frames.

BaggerDave

· #11 · Jan 20, 2006

They are trying to cert engine packages

They custom builders and engine builders are trying to convince the EPA that a an engine could be certified by itself and the rest of the vehicle does not matter that much. I agree that the EPA is picking nits and just trying to justify their existance. Too much money too much time on their hands. Too many worthless employees who are just bored.

David

berserker

· #12 · Jan 20, 2006

BaggerDave said:
I agree that the EPA is picking nits and just trying to justify their existance. Too much money too much time on their hands. Too many worthless employees who are just bored.

David

Almost that, except for money, and you don't see me going around doing this.

fastappy

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jan 20, 2006

Epa

BaggerDave said:
They custom builders and engine builders are trying to convince the EPA that a an engine could be certified by itself and the rest of the vehicle does not matter that much. I agree that the EPA is picking nits and just trying to justify their existance. Too much money too much time on their hands. Too many worthless employees who are just bored.

David

Amen, to that brother! They're out of control and drunk with power. It's job security on their part.

csoday

· #14 · Jan 20, 2006 (Edited)

fastappy said:
Amen, to that brother! They're out of control and drunk with power. It's job security on their part.

Yeah, fuk the enviroment, who needs it. If the EPA isn't allowed to fuk with big industry, why can they pick on us. I guess all these "Master Builders" need to get together and make a big donation to the Republican Party and then they will be protected. Oh, wait thats extortion isn't it.

fastappy

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jan 20, 2006

csoday said:
Yeah, fuk the enviroment, who needs it. If the EPA isn't allowed to fuk with big industry, why can they pick on us.

I didn't say all of that, I simply said they were no good slimy vermin, which if not checked will infringe more and more on motorcycles, until they get us all riding bicycles. By the way why not do your part and take off your modified exhuast, so you can be a good EPA citizen.:thumbsup:

Let's see large factories, gross polluters, nah! :bowdwn:

timbo

· #16 · Jan 20, 2006

I think we'd see a greater environmental impact if charcoal paneled underwear was EPA mandated. At least where I work anyway. Leave the bikes alone.

newultraclassic

· #17 · Jan 21, 2006

berserker said:
Why would they make the engine if it doesn't fit in a frame? S&S doesn't make frames do they? Would seem like alot of work to design an engine that is only good in custom built frames.

Take a look at your Harley. It's 45 degrees and the cylinders are already extremely close to the frame on the top, front and rear where the engine mounts.

Assuming a similar or slightly larger bore and stroke on the S&S engine, coupled with an additional 13 degrees of cylinder spacing, you have an engine that won't fit in a Harley frame.

.

berserker

· #18 · Jan 21, 2006

newultraclassic said:
Take a look at your Harley. It's 45 degrees and the cylinders are already extremely close to the frame on the top, front and rear where the engine mounts.

Assuming a similar or slightly larger bore and stroke on the S&S engine, coupled with an additional 13 degrees of cylinder spacing, you have an engine that won't fit in a Harley frame.

.

Ok. Won't deny that. Why would they put the money into an engine that does not readily have a frame availbile? I haven't read any articles or been to there site. Unless this is for custom race only, I don't get it. It would be dumb to build a motot without anywhere to put it. Unless this is aimed at custom frame choppers.

Some Guy

· #19 · Jan 21, 2006

What's going to be hilarious is when Harley Davidson comes out with a gear drive for it. Then you'll know the world's gone to Hell.

csoday

· #20 · Jan 21, 2006

I think you will find the S&S 145" and TP 145" won't fit a standard frame.

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.