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'PACKMAN'
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240 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone heard about S&S putting out an EFI tuner kit that rivals the SERT? I heard the "rumor" from an HD mechanic, and we're trying to track down reality on this one...
 

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'PACKMAN'
Joined
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240 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
application for '05 Ultra...

Chuck

It appears by your response and gallery that you know far more about this issue than I hope to ever know. I'm a 10K+ mile rider a year, but not one of the mechanically inclined, so I rely on good mechanics, the forum, and such for guidance on these issues.

I reviewed the link you provided, and it just baffled me all the more. I now ride an '05 FLHTCUI. The SERT is pricey, but is simply connected and away we go with the tuning.

In reviewing the S&S catalog, it appeared that "extras" are needed to fully set up the tuning.

Now, I know you've got better things to do, but any guidance here? Currently running a stock setup, but have a SE breather kit waiting. The major engine modifications will have to wait a couple of years...got a daughter to raise first.

Any help would be appreciated.
 

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Total Nutcase
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2,691 Posts
Frank, I'm just a shade tree mechanic, so take anything I say with a grain of salt... I've got an '06 EFI DWG and I'm buying a SERT. From looking at the S&S unit, it looks like something to be used on a custom build or maybe someone wanting to upgrade from a carb to an EFI system. As for HDs already equipped with EFI, the SERT does just about everything you could want and you get to keep your stock module (and warranty!). You can adjust fuel mixture, timing, etc.. you can record spark knock retardation, temp, and just about everything else. I don't see any advantage to swapping everything out for S&S stuff. The o2 sensors are nice, but the range of automatic adjustment they provide is very limited. In a perfect world, we would have an EFI system with o2 sensors that would automatically and perfectly tune the bike for any mods you made.... but with the EPA that will never happen. So we get stuck with narrow range sensors and lean factory mapping. Get a SERT and you'll be good to go. Have you read the 126 page manual for the sert? Check it out and you'll see how powerful the sert is ... http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/HDtechtips/racetuner.pdf
 

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'PACKMAN'
Joined
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240 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Sert

Jamie

Thanks...

Yes, I've spent quite a bit of time reviewing in detail the SERT's capability. And I've even spent a couple hours going over the manual with the HD mechanic. He didn't know the specifics to the S&S system, and he thought it might be worth the savings. The SERT actually looks more applicable to my needs....minor modifications down the road (pipes, etc.). But I do want to boost performance as I go.

Now...just to watch ebay for the best deal...paying full HD price sure seems outrageous.

THANKS....
 

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Total Nutcase
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2,691 Posts
Be careful buying a sert off ebay. If the SERT has ever been hooked up to a bike it won't work. It reads the VIN and it only works on the first bike it's used on. You can get one for about $360 if you order it from Zanotti Motors HD.
 

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Premium Member
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11,928 Posts
JamieWG said:
Frank, I'm just a shade tree mechanic, so take anything I say with a grain of salt... I've got an '06 EFI DWG and I'm buying a SERT. From looking at the S&S unit, it looks like something to be used on a custom build or maybe someone wanting to upgrade from a carb to an EFI system. As for HDs already equipped with EFI, the SERT does just about everything you could want and you get to keep your stock module (and warranty!). You can adjust fuel mixture, timing, etc.. you can record spark knock retardation, temp, and just about everything else. I don't see any advantage to swapping everything out for S&S stuff. The o2 sensors are nice, but the range of automatic adjustment they provide is very limited. In a perfect world, we would have an EFI system with o2 sensors that would automatically and perfectly tune the bike for any mods you made.... but with the EPA that will never happen. So we get stuck with narrow range sensors and lean factory mapping. Get a SERT and you'll be good to go. Have you read the 126 page manual for the sert? Check it out and you'll see how powerful the sert is ... http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/HDtechtips/racetuner.pdf
not intending to start an argument but a little fyi, the s&s unit has wideband o2 and can learn and adjust pretty well. i wouldn;t pay the grand for it, but it is a very good system and like the thundermax, you get an ecm to boot. good to havea spare when you fry one or to reinstall stock one for the dealer that may argue warranty.
 

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Hellbound Train
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5,595 Posts
franksam, as Jaimie said,
why even consider an aftermarket ECM when you allready have one. None of the aftermarkets will give you better performance than a properly tuned SERT. Sure closed loop is nice but offers no better performance.
And it will save you some dyno time if you make a major component change but realistically how many times do you change your engine build. Most people that do any mods at all will do a Stage 1 when they first get the bike (thats the time to get the SERT also) and if they take the time and do their homework, will get the build right the first time.
So, ask youreself, why do you need another ECM failure of the stock one is virtually nonexistant (I'm sure there were a few). Swap it back to sell it or do warranty work, that's a joke, try riding a modified bike with a stock ECM.
Again, as Jaimie said, if you are building a bike from scratch and want EFI, check out S&S, Thundermax, DTT and the soon to be copycats. But if you are upgrading a Harley Davidson EFI, go with the best, go SERT
 

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Administrator
Joined
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11,287 Posts
claydbal said:
better than sert!
So why don't you start a thread spelling out exactly what your problem is with using a SERT and why you hate it so much. Give us something real we can use ! Tell use why the SERT sucks so much IN YOUR OPINION. Give real world examples and produce some facts. Back up your statements with something other than "better than a sert".

IMO, There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THE STOCK ECM AND USING A SERT TO TUNE IT. I agree with Chuck 100%
 

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B-Rad, BFMC 104
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537 Posts
It seems that if he starts throwing his opinion into it, you'll be offended and probably ban him..

I think that you should re-read your post and see just how it sounds.
IMO, unwarranted, badgering, and baiting for an argument that you can threaten a ban for.. A little Troll-ing maybe?

Be an admin, don't let the perceived power go to your head.

Brad
 

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Administrator
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11,287 Posts
RideMyWideGlide said:
It seems that if he starts throwing his opinion into it, you'll be offended and probably ban him..

I think that you should re-read your post and see just how it sounds.
IMO, unwarranted, badgering, and baiting for an argument that you can threaten a ban for.. A little Troll-ing maybe?

Be an admin, don't let the perceived power go to your head.

Brad
There is no perceived power. I don't go around banning anyone based on opinion, sexual preference, nationality or any other reason other than not following the rules of the forum. I am not sure what the hair is you have across your ass but if you want to discuss it further feel free to PM me. I have had recent discussions with him regarding the SERT and he is very negative about it. I am asking him for some clarification. I am not baiting anyone. And he doesn't even have to respond to my post if he doesn't want to. I have not threatened to ban anyone and certainly not him for his obvious dislike of the SERT. I am not easily offended and your post last night in the other thread was uncalled for but I choose not to respond because no good will come of it. You will find other technical discussions that I have been a part of where I have disagreed with other members of the forum and have NEVER banned (or threatened to ban) anyone for their views or opinions on those subjects. If you want to follow me into every thread and post your opinion feel free to do so, I am sure others will see right through that.

I did reread my post and I stand behind it. I didn't through out a remark and offer no facts to support my opinion, he did. Is there a problem with me asking him for some facts to support his opinion or should I just become a sheep and blindly follow what someone else says just because?

BTW, I just edited my post .... Sorry Chuck I spelled your name wrong the first time.
 

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B-Rad, BFMC 104
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537 Posts
I'm not following you around to bash on your posts..
but somehow, the last 2 posts from you that I have come across sound very hostile toward someone who disagreed with you.
Even the reply above, although maybe a little more warranted.
And my post last night was more directed to the whole thread for the way it handled than directed at you.
Write what you want I don't give a rats ass, just pointing out an offensive trend that I noticed browsing different threads.

Brad
 

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Premium Member
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11,928 Posts
springer- said:
So why don't you start a thread spelling out exactly what your problem is with using a SERT and why you hate it so much. Give us something real we can use ! Tell use why the SERT sucks so much IN YOUR OPINION. Give real world examples and produce some facts. Back up your statements with something other than "better than a sert".

IMO, There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THE STOCK ECM AND USING A SERT TO TUNE IT. I agree with Chuck 100%
my problem with sert is simple. while it is a great tuning tool, there are other tuning tools also.
with sert, it marries your vin so that is $400 that you leave on the bike and a hardass dealer can deny warranty for manipulating the ecm.secondly if you fry the ecm, you buy another ecm and another sert!! can you say $1200?
third is the fact that lots of ignorant people will buy the sert, not take time to learn it and jst load a map that a stranger says is good, not knowing what willl happen or how the bike will act on their next trip.
very proprietary and very generic in the hands of many.
others offer software, cable and a new ecm, so if there is a problem, you can at least get home, or replace unmolested factory ecm when taking in for warranty.
if you sell or trade the bike, you keep the competitors device for your next bike------------not loosing your investment.
sert is not bad, others are better!!
your turn, tell me why others are bad and sert is better if you can!!

shiny side up!!
 

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B-Rad, BFMC 104
Joined
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537 Posts
I for one am interested in the pros/cons of others.. Having not done a whole lot of research, I have been eyeing serts on ebay for my bike. Did not know that it would cause warranty issues. This makes me hesitant as my dealer has already shown a lack of warranty backing on mine.

Please, more details.... :dunno:
 

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Premium Member
Joined
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11,928 Posts
RideMyWideGlide said:
I for one am interested in the pros/cons of others.. Having not done a whole lot of research, I have been eyeing serts on ebay for my bike. Did not know that it would cause warranty issues. This makes me hesitant as my dealer has already shown a lack of warranty backing on mine.

Please, more details.... :dunno:
sert- screamin eagle RACE tuner. can be denied warranty because it is listed as off road.the factory ecm also logs data that can be used against you. although your deler may say they will provide warranty, what happens if it braks on a ride and is towed to another dealer.harley has the ability to connect a laptop and send via internet your logs to warranty claims department----------------------think about that----------proprietary in every sense!!
 

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Premium Member
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11,928 Posts
for yalls info-----springers recent communications with me came in the for of a PM asking why i liked the thundermax. i took him at heart and answered his quetions honestly. even gave him some insider knowledge.

baiting?????????????????????? starting to look like it huh?
 

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Premium Member
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11,928 Posts
and furthermore i don't appreciate this wqhole thing.
ban me ---- i know quite a few work arounds to that.
this is what i would consider CHICKENSHIT LIBERAL TACTICS because i don't tolerate your butthole buddy teegee's baiting tactics either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Total Nutcase
Joined
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2,691 Posts
claydbal said:
sert- screamin eagle RACE tuner. can be denied warranty because it is listed as off road.the factory ecm also logs data that can be used against you. although your deler may say they will provide warranty, what happens if it braks on a ride and is towed to another dealer.harley has the ability to connect a laptop and send via internet your logs to warranty claims department----------------------think about that----------proprietary in every sense!!

This thread is about comparing the S&S to the SERT. A dealer can deny warranty for just about anything, but it's gonna be hard for him to prove you messed anything up with the SERT. Even if you modify a map and then fry something in the motor, you can always upload a standard HD map off the CD before you take it to the dealer for service. The SERT CD has the standard HD maps made for Stage I, Stage II, etc... How simple is that? You take the bike in for work and even if they do hook up to the ECM and read the map, chances are, they will assume you had the SERT work done at a certified HD dealer.

I think replacing the entire EFI system with one like the S&S would be more likely to get your warranty voided.. And if you roll into the dealer with a Thundermax hooked up to the ECM, the warranty is cancelled for sure.

Thundermax is a nice unit, but say you've got popping on decel caused by retarded timing in the rear cylinder allowing unburned fuel to get down in the pipe... Can the Thundermax fix that? The SERT can fix it and it can also log all the data that allows you to know what the problem is..... it's not just gonna dump more fuel on the prob. The difference is, Thundermax is a fuel enricher and the SERT is a tuning tool. SERT may be limited to one bike, but it will get that one bike running like nothing else can.
 
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