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I have no technical info to add. The one thing that strikes me is that a Jim's is basically an HD motor, you are more likely to get a dealer to work on it if you get stuck on the road. If that means anything to you at all.
 

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1. You can purchase a Jims motor from a harley dealer and have them service it. See what kind of response you get when you phone the sales dept at S&S.
2. Various sources have noted that the S&S 124 has a nasty habit of breaking connecting rods.
3. The S&S catalog touts the virtues of the VFI fuel injection system. Try phoning one of their "S&S certified" programmers - I did and every one of was either not interested or tried to talk me into a power commander. Also nice that nowhere do they mention that their tuned injection system won't fit on a bagger with lowers.
4. S&S has unresolved issues with the twin cam patent and is currently being litigated by HD
5. Performance seems to be roughly equivalent as far as I have seen on dyno charts
 

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Sounds like a lot of experience witth S&S - all of it bad. I've called their tech support a couple times and gotten pretty much the same treatment - almost like they resent having their day interrupted. Ya gotta wonder...
 

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jfritz_drfritz. said:
1. You can purchase a Jims motor from a harley dealer and have them service it. See what kind of response you get when you phone the sales dept at S&S.
2. Various sources have noted that the S&S 124 has a nasty habit of breaking connecting rods.
3. The S&S catalog touts the virtues of the VFI fuel injection system. Try phoning one of their "S&S certified" programmers - I did and every one of was either not interested or tried to talk me into a power commander. Also nice that nowhere do they mention that their tuned injection system won't fit on a bagger with lowers.
4. S&S has unresolved issues with the twin cam patent and is currently being litigated by HD
5. Performance seems to be roughly equivalent as far as I have seen on dyno charts
So far I have broken a rod but then again I believe the rod breakage has occured on the drag only engines but I believe I heard one report of a street ridden one breaking a rod. I can say for sure if I break one the way I ride they definitly have a problem.:yes:

Don't know what the HP&TQ is yet but I'm guessing in the 124-131 HP and 130-140 TQ range. Box stock except for modified CV51.

As far as I know HD had to pack there bags and go home on the law suit. At least they haven't been able to stop production.

If I'm around home and needs parts no problem. Got a shop that knows how to order them an has a good relationship with S&S. On the road finding someone I trust to work on it would be of more concern than getting parts. To me getting parts has always been about getting correct part numbers to order. Maybe hard to do may not. May be only a phone call away to my local shop for help. As far as I know, no Harley dealer stocks any parts for Jims 120 that are not used on production engines. I had to wait two weeks just to get a Screaming Ego intake gasket for a CV 51 and I had to tell the counterman what the part number was. Got an idea any Jims 120 specfic engine parts will take a while to get an I'd make sure I had a list of parts numbers to help the Dealer's parts man out as some of them have a hard enough time looking up stock parts.

Only had one experience with S&S tech support and that was back in 2003 with IST and they took care of it so no complaints there.

IMHO it's not smart to run lowers on these big engines. Real smart not to run those chrome air deflectors for sure so the VFI should not pose a problem or at least it wouldn't for me. These big motors do tend to need as much air flow as you can get to them.

If I do run into a problem I guess I'll find out what's what.

Did have threads striped out of 5 both holes.:duh?:


PS: I would like to have a Jims 120 TCB engine for my softail and they are nice looking engine and cases can be bored out bigger than the ones that S&S uses with their 124's. Don't really understand why I even care about that...LOL
 

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My experiences around this matter:

  • I was not able to buy Jim's 120" from my Harley dealer as we (me and dealer) couldn't get a quote from Jim's
  • I bought my S&S 124" from my Harley dealer and installed it together with them
  • I get my S&S 124" serviced at my Harley dealer
  • from what I've read Jim's 120" looks to be a very nice engine but out of box S&S 124" walk's over it
  • EFI - what's that? :D
 

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Incredible
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The Jim's 120 is a very nice engine. I almost bought one, but I decided to build my own engine. I think it is well put together and as stated above, you should be sure to have all the part numbers in case you do need a part.

Same for S&S. I give that company huge props. I have seen many bikes running their motors and they were the first company to offer 2 year warranties on their motors. Harley responded with the same in 04-up.

No matter what you build when it comes to a large engine you need to keep it cool.
 

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What are the prices of the two motors. I was thinking about a 95" build but I think I would get bored with it so I might try to skip straight to the 120+. Will the stock tranny hold up or will I also need to upgrade the tranny.
 

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IronButt
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I have a 124 S&S on the way here now that has been back to them and the dealer for many issues. Ok I see the money that can be spent. Look at the numbers that they both make. These are real numbers you can look to get 118 -123 hp and approx the same tq. There are several versions of the 124 though but the base model is making about 1 hp per cube which is great, but those that think that you will get 130 TQ from a 9.1 comp Jims, Not going to happen, I have dynoed plenty of the 120 and they run great and as I said put out approx 1 per cube. With more work to them they become a really great running engine, but that equals more money.

Ok now if you where to take your current set to a 114 you would be money ahead and make more power. And retain your factory cases, many place there are tons of hoops to jump through when it comes to swapping cases. ANd not just state/ fed regs but with insurance comapnys. Like it or not you need to do the right thing when changing serial numbers on the cases. Wreck the bike and find out that the insurance company tells you that YOU failed to let them know about the engine deal and have them tell you that they will not cover it is a VERY real deal. Been there done that, THEY will leave you holding the bag.

I like the Jims over the S&S but for money spent I am left wondering why?? Why spend that muchmoney when there are less exspensive ways to build a engine??
 

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HDWRENCH said:
I have a 124 S&S on the way here now that has been back to them and the dealer for many issues. Ok I see the money that can be spent. Look at the numbers that they both make. These are real numbers you can look to get 118 -123 hp and approx the same tq. There are several versions of the 124 though but the base model is making about 1 hp per cube which is great, but those that think that you will get 130 TQ from a 9.1 comp Jims, Not going to happen, I have dynoed plenty of the 120 and they run great and as I said put out approx 1 per cube. With more work to them they become a really great running engine, but that equals more money.

Ok now if you where to take your current set to a 114 you would be money ahead and make more power. And retain your factory cases, many place there are tons of hoops to jump through when it comes to swapping cases. ANd not just state/ fed regs but with insurance comapnys. Like it or not you need to do the right thing when changing serial numbers on the cases. Wreck the bike and find out that the insurance company tells you that YOU failed to let them know about the engine deal and have them tell you that they will not cover it is a VERY real deal. Been there done that, THEY will leave you holding the bag.

I like the Jims over the S&S but for money spent I am left wondering why?? Why spend that muchmoney when there are less exspensive ways to build a engine??
Wrench,

I've got a softail that I've been thinking off and on about doing a 114 build on and even went so far as to talk with RevPerf about. What is the total parts cost for a build that will make 125 HP and about 10 more TQ. 114 Kit, Carb with air filter kit, Heads new or reworked customer's with big valves, Manifold to match head port size, ignition, cams, lifters, compression releases, gasket kit(s) and labor to disassemble and reassemble bottom end to have cases bored for cylinders & machined for crank bearing upgrade?
 

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Ive been considering the 114" also and was also wondering about a price for the same work,it should rock when done,but also wonder about dependability of the 114?
 

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If it were me....

I think I'd talk to HDWRENCH about what he can do for you. I've spoken with him several times and he's always been more than helpful and will explain the choices you have. It seems to me he'll steer you to the things he knows are going to work in harmony to produce an excellent result. I get the feeling he really knows his stuff and is more than willing to share his knowledge. I've done some reading and talking to people. It seems like you can do a 114 build and make the same if not a little more numbers than a whole motor. Now if you want to spend an extra $1,000 or there abouts you can bump that up to a built 124 from HDWRENCH and have a rocket on 2 wheels. I myself am going the 114 route simply because I don't want to spend another $1,000 and I have a very strong feeling the 114 is going to be plenty for me. If not I'll be on the phone with the Wrench once again.
 

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IronButt
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Build cost can vary depending on the level of performance you want but The cost is much less than buying a crate motor, and will out perform it as well. WE have been making 130/130 on a regular basis with the 114 with out ANY trouble and cost wise approx 3000 less than a crate motor. But again some guys have a big t/b and a sert and a good pipe or have a source for a use unit and so on. Please give me a call ans I will be happy to talk to you about a 114/
 

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HDWRENCH said:
Build cost can vary depending on the level of performance you want but The cost is much less than buying a crate motor, and will out perform it as well. WE have been making 130/130 on a regular basis with the 114 with out ANY trouble and cost wise approx 3000 less than a crate motor. But again some guys have a big t/b and a sert and a good pipe or have a source for a use unit and so on. Please give me a call ans I will be happy to talk to you about a 114/
Wrench,

Below is my dilemma with the Softail and my reason for going with an S&S 124
in the FLHT. I'm probably not the usual customer for a 114 or 120/124 RevPer build with the softail and most probably would not be as lucky to get an S&S 124" at price I did.

In my case about the only thing I have I would use off the Softail is the Exhaust and cases. With 46,000 + on crank I'm not sure about using it and the balancer chain, tensioner etc should be replaced. I'd be looking at a turnkey build in the 1.1:1 HP & 1.2:1 TQ that I might as well take to a 120/124 because of crank.

With the case being the only part of the engine used I'm thinking I'm not that much better off modifying over a complete engine cost wise. Then I think about how much head gasket is left to seal with with 4 1/4 cylinders and stock head bolt pattern. I've only seen 4 1/8 gasket and that was scary enough.

The S&S 124 FLHT to me was a no-brainer. I bought the engine from a shop when Drag put them on sell at end of 2004 as S&S was releasing there complete 124 in 2005. Cost was $5178 including sales tax. Needed to buy only oil pump, lifters, cam plate, chrome tappet covers and chrome cam cover as all the other things needed were part of the enigne package unlike modifing the Softial would be. Nothing except exhaust was swapped over. I did not use the G carb setup so I have the cost of a used Wood 50.5 I picked up to add to my total cost but part of that could be recovered if I sold the Garb, breather and manifold. I have my original TC engine to either put back in if I decided to get rid of bike or sell outright and recoup some of my cost. Also have that set of used TW9FG cams just in case the 640s don't work out for me.
 

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IronButt
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The engine temp is going to be with compression , cam and the tune. A 114 with a good tune at 10.5 compression would run no hotter than stock am more than likely cooler due to the cylinder. My 124 at 12.8 compression runs oil temps in the 200-220 range in the AZ summer heat.

There are NO issue with head gaskets sealing, or base gasket issue's. Again I have built more than I can count of 107,114, 117, 124, 131's . And have use both stock and S&S case's. I have had issue with S&S case but the was not a sealing issue, they did not machine the case correctly for trans mounting.

For the money the 114 is a great bang for buck build. Over square design, cylinders that leave stock iron lined in the dust, life time warranty. What more can you ask for?? ( no free kits nice try LOL )
 

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I tried to go with the Jims, but they wanted close to $10,000 for the motor. Found a 124 SS for less than $7,000 and they bought my twin cam for $3,000.
 

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Terence Brown said:
I tried to go with the Jims, but they wanted close to $10,000 for the motor. Found a 124 SS for less than $7,000 and they bought my twin cam for $3,000.

Huh? 10K, that ain't right.

My JIMS 120" alpha was $7200 from my HD dealer.

ShortBlockCharlie has his prices posted as well. No where near $10K.
 
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