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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone installed the HD reduced effort clutch kit WITH the White Bros. Easy Boy Lite Clutch Kit? I have a 2000 FXDWG, and I installed the White Bros. Easy Boy Lite Clutch Kit before the HD reduced effort clutch kit (part # 36808-05) was available. I also put a new clutch cable on at the time, and keep it lubed. It was definately an improvement, but I am thinking with both modifications done together I should have a silky smooth, and easy clutch pull. I have had surgery on my left hand, and its still giving me problems. I am not wanting to go with an auto clutch setup (expensive,last resort) and I am not giving up riding. Also does anyone know if the diaphram spring included in the HD kit is a Higher or Lower pressure spring, compared to the stock diaphram spring. It could be a lower spring rate (to help achieve reduced clutch effort) but by the same token, it could be a higher spring rate(for better clutch lockup) ...since the ball and ramp mechanism gives a mechanical advantage to overcome a stiffer spring!?
 

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Haven't done both but I'd try it (maybe end up with a 1 finger clutch pull). I think the diaphram spring is lighter, and the Formula+ fluid is the recommend from the MoCo.
 

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The spring that comes with the kit is lighter than stock. I used the kit on my '03 95" Dyna and didn't have any problem with the clutch slipping. I remember reading about someone that used both the EZ Boy kit and the Harley kit and had problems. You're giving up shorter lever travel for lighter pull with both kits, so you may wind up with so much travel you can't get good engagement and/or disengagement.
I installed the new ramps on mine and rode it that way for awhile before I installed the lighter spring. The ramps were probably about half of the overall reduced effort.
You can get the spring serarately, but the whole kit is cheap enough that I'd try it. You can always put the old ramps back in if you have trouble.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
murphdog said:
The spring that comes with the kit is lighter than stock. I used the kit on my '03 95" Dyna and didn't have any problem with the clutch slipping. I remember reading about someone that used both the EZ Boy kit and the Harley kit and had problems. You're giving up shorter lever travel for lighter pull with both kits, so you may wind up with so much travel you can't get good engagement and/or disengagement.
I installed the new ramps on mine and rode it that way for awhile before I installed the lighter spring. The ramps were probably about half of the overall reduced effort.
You can get the spring serarately, but the whole kit is cheap enough that I'd try it. You can always put the old ramps back in if you have trouble.
Thanks for the replies. I am not sure what you mean by "giving up shorter lever travel for lighter pull". With the White Brothers kit you install a spacer onto the clutch cable before threading the cable back into the trans cover. You are essentially making the arm on the ball and ramp assembly longer for more "leverage". Clutch cable throw, or travel remains the same. What kind of problems did you read about?? I am thinking about installing the HD kit (without the spring) and the White Bros. kit together. I just dont feel good about going with less (than stock) clamping force on the clutch pack.
 

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By lengthening the arm of the ramp with the White Bros kit, clutch lever travel becomes further between clutch plates fully engaged and fully disengaged (push rod travel). With the stock setup, you have some free clutch lever travel on both sides; you pull the lever in a little before the clutch plates start to separate and let the lever out a little before the clutch plates start to engage. With both the White Bros kit and the Harley kit, you lose a little of the free travel at the clutch lever.
The same principal applies to any lever; you lengthen the lever arm on your side of the fulcrum and you can move the weight on the other side of the fulcrum easier, but you have to move your end of the lever further to do it.
The grooves for the balls in the reduced effort ramps have a shallower angle and are longer than stock, thus requiring more clutch lever travel to affect the same amount of movement at the clutch plates.
The concern I would have is that you may end up with the clutch not fully engaged (slips) with the clutch lever released and the clutch not fully disengaged (drags) with the clutch lever pulled in. In other words, you may run out of clutch lever travel.
 

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I remember reading somewhere that HD is putting the easy pull kit on 2006 and newer HD's? Does anyone know if thats the case?

Doug
 

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Discussion Starter #7
murphdog said:
By lengthening the arm of the ramp with the White Bros kit, clutch lever travel becomes further between clutch plates fully engaged and fully disengaged (push rod travel). With the stock setup, you have some free clutch lever travel on both sides; you pull the lever in a little before the clutch plates start to separate and let the lever out a little before the clutch plates start to engage. With both the White Bros kit and the Harley kit, you lose a little of the free travel at the clutch lever.
The same principal applies to any lever; you lengthen the lever arm on your side of the fulcrum and you can move the weight on the other side of the fulcrum easier, but you have to move your end of the lever further to do it.
The grooves for the balls in the reduced effort ramps have a shallower angle and are longer than stock, thus requiring more clutch lever travel to affect the same amount of movement at the clutch plates.
The concern I would have is that you may end up with the clutch not fully engaged (slips) with the clutch lever released and the clutch not fully disengaged (drags) with the clutch lever pulled in. In other words, you may run out of clutch lever travel.
Thanks murphdog I see what you are saying now. I have never had the late model ball & ramp setup in my hand to see, first hand what the difference is compared to the stock setup. Is that the only difference, the ramp angle and ramp length? No difference in the ball diameter, or a slightly longer clutch cable arm??? Someone out there has had to try this combination! It has been recommended to look into a Variable pressure clutch setup (VPC). They claim a 50% reduction in clutch lever effort, but I dont know if this claim is accurate. How is this reduction accomplished without a reduced diaphram spring pressure, or added mechanical advantage? It appears that the VPC's main function is to eliminate clutch slippage under load. Or am I missing something here. What do you think the most effective way to reduce clutch lever effort would be...... without creating a function problem. Thanks....Tech23
 

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You re-use the original balls with the Harley reduced effort kit. As far as I know, the only difference in the ramps is the reduced angle of the grooves. The ramps I took out of my '03 Dyna are marked 21° and I think the reduced effort ramps are 18°...but it's been a while and I may be wrong.
I don't think you would have a slipping problem with the lighter diaphragm spring unless you have made some serious motor modifications. It worked fine on the Dyna with 95" cylinders and 203 cams...I couldn't make it slip even with full throttle roll ons from low rpm in 5th gear. As I said, I believe about half of the reduced effort with the Harley kit came from the lighter spring.
Don't know anything about the VPC other than what I've read. Plenty of information out there if you Google it.
 

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Tech23 said:
Has anyone installed the HD reduced effort clutch kit WITH the White Bros. Easy Boy Lite Clutch Kit?
Yes, I have and it doesn't work. Once installed there is not enough lever pull left to release the clutch. I went with the HD reduced effort kit, SE clutch spring, and VPC83T for a tight clutch and very easy pull. Lighter than stock.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
YankeeBob said:
Yes, I have and it doesn't work. Once installed there is not enough lever pull left to release the clutch. I went with the HD reduced effort kit, SE clutch spring, and VPC83T for a tight clutch and very easy pull. Lighter than stock.
Just like murphdog suspected.......So you were able to obtain the proper clutch cable free play adjustment, but the clutch would not fully disengage (dragging clutch). It would be nice if you could get an aftermaket clutch lever with the hole for the cable located so you could "restore" the amount of lever travel, or cable throw.
Could you give more info. on your VPC. Does it all fit under the derby cover without modification to the cover and/or outer primary cover? Any new noise from the clutch? How is the clutch modulation, consistent or vague? If you would have used the HD reduced effort ball and ramp assembly with the stock diaphram spring and the VPC, do you think the clutch effort would have been reduced at all??? Thanks Tech23
 

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I understand the "06 model year introduced the newer reduced effort clutch setup across the full line (not sure if Sportster was included then). I also heard that the clutch cable itself was redesigned with a Teflon interior to be "slipperier" than the previous style. So, to reap the most benefit from the kit, you'll need the cable, also. It appears H-D did their homework as the '06 and newer models are significantly lighter and smoother. I'm putting my kit on as soon as I get the cable. But above all else, keep whatever you have cleaned and lubed-if any of you are a Maico rider as myself, you can REALLY appreciate ANY lighter clutch pull!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
maicobo2002 said:
I understand the "06 model year introduced the newer reduced effort clutch setup across the full line (not sure if Sportster was included then). I also heard that the clutch cable itself was redesigned with a Teflon interior to be "slipperier" than the previous style. So, to reap the most benefit from the kit, you'll need the cable, also. It appears H-D did their homework as the '06 and newer models are significantly lighter and smoother. I'm putting my kit on as soon as I get the cable. But above all else, keep whatever you have cleaned and lubed-if any of you are a Maico rider as myself, you can REALLY appreciate ANY lighter clutch pull!
I dont know if the cables have been changed/redesigned on the 2006 and newer bikes, but to the best of my knowledge the OEM cable on my 2000 FXDWG has a lining bonded to the spiral wound cable casing, rather than the cable itself. I dont know if it is plastic or teflon. Honda coats the braided cable itself with either plastic or teflon, not the cable casing. Do you know which style cable the new bikes come with. I am just trying to figure out if something has really been changed on the cable construction or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
murphdog said:
By lengthening the arm of the ramp with the White Bros kit, clutch lever travel becomes further between clutch plates fully engaged and fully disengaged (push rod travel). With the stock setup, you have some free clutch lever travel on both sides; you pull the lever in a little before the clutch plates start to separate and let the lever out a little before the clutch plates start to engage. With both the White Bros kit and the Harley kit, you lose a little of the free travel at the clutch lever.
The same principal applies to any lever; you lengthen the lever arm on your side of the fulcrum and you can move the weight on the other side of the fulcrum easier, but you have to move your end of the lever further to do it.
The grooves for the balls in the reduced effort ramps have a shallower angle and are longer than stock, thus requiring more clutch lever travel to affect the same amount of movement at the clutch plates.
The concern I would have is that you may end up with the clutch not fully engaged (slips) with the clutch lever released and the clutch not fully disengaged (drags) with the clutch lever pulled in. In other words, you may run out of clutch lever travel.
Murphdog.......I had a thought. If I were to install a slightly longer aluminum spacer on the clutch cable (transmission side) and transfer my White Brothers part to the HD reduced effort ball and ramp setup........do you think I could get back the needed clutch lever travel, to make it engage and disengage properly? Isn't that the reason for the spacer in the White Brothers kit. I initially thought the spacer was so you could acheive the proper free play adjustment at the lever, without maxing out the adjuster sleeve. It has been awhile since I installed the kit so I dont even remember if there is enough room on the trans end of the cable to accomodate a slightly longer spacer and still have enough threads to properly thread into the trans cover. If the spacer is not possible, how about the same length cable with slightly longer casing?
 

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Tech, I think available clutch lever travel is going to be the limiting factor. The lever bottoms out on the grip when you pull it in and on the clutch lever bracket when you release it. On my bike, there's about 4" of lever travel from the ball end of the lever to the grip. By adding the longer ramp arm from the White Bros kit and the longer ball grooves in the Harley ramps, you may end up needing 5" of lever travel and it's just not there. Back to what I said earlier; if you make the lever arm longer, moving the weight gets easier but you have to move the lever further. You might gain a little more lever travel by using really small diameter grips and you might be able to grind some material away on the end of the lever where it bottoms out inside the bracket.
I believe you're initial thought on the purpose of the cable spacer is correct; to bring the cable adjuster sleeve back in range after you add length to the ramp arm. I may be wrong, but I don't think a longer spacer will help.

Don't know if you've seen this Amp Research device, but it would probably work with the White Bros kit. The website shows it fitting up to 2003 models.
http://www.amp-research.com/build/motorcycles/powerclutch.asp
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Murphdog, I looked into the AMP research part before going with the White Brothers kit. It looked to me like there might be a chance, that the pins that attach the spring to the gears could fail. Plus the WB kit is not visible in any way. I already have the reduced diameter grips, I just have not put them on yet. What do you think of the Barnett coil spring clutch conversion kit?
 

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Tech,
I know nothing about the Barnett springs and I guess I'm out of ideas. I still think you should try the lighter weight Harley diaphragm spring and see if it will work for you. It's only a few bucks and takes a few minutes to change (depending on what model bike you have).
 

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If you have problems with your hand from surgery, it may be worth investing in a hydraulic clutch. For most people it wouldn't be worth it, but with an impairment it may be worth the investment.
My -2$en#e-
Gravel
 

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If anybody wants the lightweight spring that came in the kit, pm me and you can have it.
 

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I have an '05 Deluxe that had very stiff clutch and I was considering installing the "soft-pull" clutch kit or a hydraulic clutch. Before I got involved with all that I decided to replace the clutch cable with a new one, lubed it with a syringe full of cable lub prior to installation, and man did that make a difference! I have about 10,000 miles on the bike since doing this and it still works beautifully, smooth and is much easier than the original. I don't remember how much the cable was, but it was not expensive and the installation was fairly simple. Might want to consider this before doing anything major.

twocoltbob
 
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