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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, I know I had some input before about RB Racing. In the last month, I've done alot of research on efi, tuners, and exhausts. I revisited, and re-read all what he has to say. Some say he;s off the wall, but he seems to make alot of sense, and mostly contrary to all the other aftermarket product claims. From O2 sensor positioning and don;t use wide-band, closed loop tuning only, Alpha-N based systems a line of crap, don't dyno, forget megaphone designs....phewwwwwwww!

If you go his route, will cost a fortune. So, are we really splitting hairs on the differences, or are we spending alot of money for the wrong exhausts and tuners for simple stage1 mods?

For the RB'ers out there, need a little shove, and get me out of the weeds...

And for the life of me, reading all about how whacked out this guy is, why am I hooked on his exhausts?

BTW, will be tagging up with Stratus to checkout his scoot and RB's.
 

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The OTHER White Meat.
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I've met him, and he is quirky, but certainly not the arrogant azzhole monster some make him out to be. He is just absorbed by his projects and doesn't have a lot of time to waste.

I have the chrome 2-1, and it is a solid, quality product. It is also loud.
 

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Average Dude
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I have a set of the Black Hole 2-1 pipes. They are everything they claimed to be. However, I had a welded nut holding a heat shield on the muffler fall off while on Springer's dyno. A weld that didn't penetrate. They said they would fix it...no problem. I'm waiting till this winter to deal with it.
Otherwise, I am happy with the product. I would like to be able to compare them with the D&D FatCat.
 

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RB Blackhole 2-1 noise

YankeeBob

I have been looking at the BlackHole 2-1. Am sold on everything but not sure of the noise. Listened to the video on their site but you can't really tell. Sounds like it could be pretty loud especially with the hammer down.

Can you give us a comparison say to a stock 96 Road King?

Been hoping to find someone south of Houston to listen to but no luck yet.

Thanks.
 

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Average Dude
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The Black Hole is not loud by any stretch of the imagination. It is louder than stock. But, not even close to the bark I had with my SE slipons. It is a VERY neighborhood friendly pipe. It has a nice deep mellow rumble. Even up at say....85 mph or so it isn't real loud. Very easy on the ears.
 

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ronyd said:
Some say he;s off the wall, but he seems to make alot of sense, and mostly contrary to all the other aftermarket product claims. From O2 sensor positioning and don;t use wide-band, closed loop tuning only, Alpha-N based systems a line of crap, don't dyno, forget megaphone designs....phewwwwwwww!
I just think he is very opinionated. I don't buy into half his claims...they are just that, he provides no data to back it up. Just a couple of examples: I've been running wideband o2 sensors now close to 20k miles and they look and act like new; by his claims, they should of been destroyed by now. He claims that alpha-N is stupid and cannot work properly does not jive with the testimony of all the TMax (and DTT) users out there. His marketing of his system is crazy and confusioning. I find he would rather put down anyone he does not agree with instead of offering side by side proof and oh by the way, don't call him to engineer the system.

He is most excellent telling half the story.

Regards,
NC
 

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Go fast or dont go.
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when i first contacted bob at R&B i was expecting the worst, wouldnt talk, didnt care, impatient with the unknowing.....etc. it def wasnt that way. he is by no means a warm a fuzzy kind of guy, he knows what he knows, believes in what he has designed, and really doesnt care if you agree with him or not. he is more than willing to explain his beliefs and facts on the matter, if you dont agree, buy a diff pipe. he just doent want to waste his time engaged in a debate over something or with someone that wont influence what he believes in. it is what it is guys. you either buy into his design principals, or you dont.

bob spent close to an hour with me the first time we spoke, it was enlighting to say the least. since that day, i have owned 3 of his pipes and love them. yes they are a wee bit loud, so if you are not offended by a little noise then let the fur fly..lol. the welds are tight, fit and finish were flawless and the performance on my motor awesome.

i have spoken once again to bob about building me a custom pipe to accomedate the oval port R&R heads on the 131-139" build i have going on at R&R as we speak. toten (which also owns an R&B pipe), turned me on to burns stainless, which im giving them consideration as well. point being, ive gone back to bob again for maybe a fourth pipe, and he was as before...painfully honest..lol.

in the end, for street use, if all that seperates the pipes are a few HP, fit and finish the same, then all thats left is looks. choose what makes you happy, gives you the performance, fit and finsih you can live with, and dont look back. if bob, or someone like him offends your finer sensibilities :spank: , then dont buy his pipe.

i for one, regardless of bobs abrupt nature, like his product, and have seen its real world performance up close and personal.
 

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I'm still looking for someone in the Conroe / Houston area with a LSR 2-1 so I can hear the pipe.

I completely agree with him concerning the merge collector design. Every automotive racing engine out there that I know of does not use a megaphone design. They all use some sort of merge collector that is only a little bigger that the primary tubes coming from the exhaust ports.
 

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I would like to try the LSR 2-1 pipe but can't bring myself to spend $1K for exhaust. Hell, I'm having a hard time spending $500 for a supermeg. I found one on Ebay used but somehow the damn auction ended early and it sold for $300!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I'm an engineer (software) for 35 years now, so I deal with alot of errogant aholes, and frankly doesn't bother me much. Guess I'm pretty much passive, with high standards, and love all the theory and numbers. More power to this guy. Too much info is a good thing...

My only problem is deciding on the right approach. Seems Bob is so technically involved with numbers, equations, etc., and that to him, on paper, other aftermarket products don;t add up.
 

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I'm gonna powder his nose
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I work in the motorcycle exhaust industry. I don't clain know everything..........no one can, because new machines/technology enter the field daily.
I was schooled either direct (or indirectly from dyno reports and notes) by some of the masters in the field.


1K for a pipe..........

What did P.T. Barnum say.............
 

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OldBoldPilot
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Same answer as on other forum:

This topic has really been done to death, as you know. Here's my take:

You're walking through a park on a sunny day, and there on a soap box is standing an obviously nutty guy spouting about how the world is coming to an end, and the only way to prevent this from happening is if you listen to what he has to say and follow his instructions.

The vast majority of people will walk right on by, and either not pay any attention at all or shake their heads sadly at this person embarrassing himself and go on about their day. But there will always be a little cluster of people hanging on his every word, ready to believe.

Now, do you really think that it's worth spending over $1000 on an admittedly good product, but one that costs nearly double what, say, a D&D Fatcat would cost? Will it give you more power? Maybe. Will it give you $1000-worth more than a Fatcat or other quality 2:1? Please.

Is an RB-Racing pipe better than some other pipes? Quite likely. Is it better than every other pipe out there? Come on. Is this guy smarter than all the other pipe manufacturers, and has he come up with the Holy Grail of pipes? Please.

Finally, is it okay to trash your competition on a public website? Is it okay to trash many of your customers on a public website? Is it okay to ship a $1000 pipe with no mounting instructions? You tell me.

Now, it's a free country, and anyone who wants to go out and spend $1000+ on an exhaust pipe is free to do so, and good luck to you. Your choice. Is it a good choice? Well, it is if you think it is. For me, I just shook my head after reading their website; decided I wouldn't buy a pipe from this guy if it were made of titanium and cost $50; walked over to the D&D counter, plunked down my hard-earned $600, and bought myself a high-quality pipe from a serious company with superior customer service.

But you'll make your own choice, I'm sure.
 

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RK05 said:
I would like to try the LSR 2-1 pipe but can't bring myself to spend $1K for exhaust. Hell, I'm having a hard time spending $500 for a supermeg. I found one on Ebay used but somehow the damn auction ended early and it sold for $300!

which one are you referring to? in the lsr design the prices were in the 500-700 range. :dunno:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Philip, well put..
shovel13, was thinking of LSR $575-700 + plus heat shields, etc), and not the BlackHole $1000+. So all said and done, LSR's will probably be at $1000.

If I didn;t have an issue of ground clearance with my 07' Deluxe using the FatCats, don;t think I'd be even considering RB. If anyone out there has FatCats on their Deluxe, please get your thoughts!!

My point and confusion is not as much with his exhaust methodology compared to others (with megaphone design, O2 sensor, etc) but with the other faults Bob has with tuners, and the concept of what tuners should or shouldn't be doing. After reading his website, I felt the exhaust selection is only part of the story, and making the wrong decision on tuners, dynos, etc, I would end up with my scoot blown to pieces or running inefficiently.
:thanks:
 

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RK05 said:
I would like to try the LSR 2-1 pipe but can't bring myself to spend $1K for exhaust. Hell, I'm having a hard time spending $500 for a supermeg. I found one on Ebay used but somehow the damn auction ended early and it sold for $300!
What pipe are you looking at? I paid about $800 for a Black LSR with chrome shields and shipping. Would have been less, but the Black is the most expensive coating. Chrome would be about $150 less.

I'd do it again in an instant. That's only a couple of hundred over a Boarzilla. Sounds so much better and just looks and feels like a "Beefier" pipe. Heavier gague metal, teriffic welds ... Total removal and install was about 20 minutes.

FYI ... the price she quoted me was a little less than the website ... not sure why.:hmmm:
 

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I got the price from their web site but I didn't realize that was for the titanium Black Hole. Yes, the chrome one is $895 but I thought they came with heat shields so your back up to $1K.
 

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There is no way that any one pipe is better on all applications. If this pipe was tuned for a stock 96" engine, it won't work better on a BB with a hot cam setup than a pipe that is tuned for it. Since it seems like these are being made in small batches, I would feel better about a product that has a good rep and is plentiful.
 

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I'm gonna powder his nose
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IF this was directed at me.......I am not in direct competition with any V-Twin exhaust manufacturer, simply because our primary focus is atv and dirt bikes.





Philip said:
Finally, is it okay to trash your competition on a public website?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thundercatken, I was also thinking Black. Never thought of chrome shields though. Why didn;t you just go chrome all the way? wouldn;t think you can see much of the black? For my deluxe,. looks like $675+150+misc., in the ball park.

If you have a chance, could you send me a pic of your scoot (send to [email protected]).
 
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