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Discussion Starter #1
Ok so I went last week to pick up the bike at R&R. I got the Stage 2 1/2 package, has the 615 cams, gear driven, forged hi top pistons, etc. When you get the bike they tell you keep it between 2500-3200 rpm. Interesting to note I bought a Baisley spring to increase the oil pressure,they recommended against using it said it created oil pressure only on one side and not on the return side. So it didn't get it installed.I figure these guys build and look at a lot of motors, so whatever they said I agreed too.

Riding impression on the way home, seat of the pants more power, I guess I expected even more. Maybe once I get past the 3200 rpm range I'll find it. Maybe my expectations were higher. But I expected a 100/100 hp/tourque (I hope) bike to go a little faster. It does spin up nicely runs thru the rpm range quicker than before. You can certainly hear the whine of the gear driven cams but again not as bad as I thought. You definitely hear it though. At least no tensioners to ever go bad and very accurate cam timing to boot.

They highly recommned Torco straight 50 weight in the bike. I was running Mobil One 20-50 in the motor and that seemed to work well. I also have a Jagg Oil cooler and a temp gauge in the oil tank. I've seen it hit 250+ on some summer days before I switched to Mobil One and added the oil cooler. Using Mobil One only dropped it maybe 5-10 degrees at best, oil cooler made it drop about 10-20 degrees. Just a FYI. I still plan to run Mobil One,
I figure if Formula One cars use it to protect their motor, and cost is no obect in their buying their oil, Mobil One it is. R&R uses Torco 50 weight in all their bikes.

One more item, I have an estimate of what it was going to cost, it was not cheap and being married there is a budget, but the total price was 20% higher than the original estimate. Didn't like that at all. They replaced the oil pump, and all 4 lifters, the pump was $362, and $430 installed. Wouldn't they have to take out the oil pump during the rebuild.? I could have bought a Fueling for $300. To be fair they said I may have to replace the oil pump but at a price of $300, that is a fair cry from $430. Don't like to bitch about money but it is a factor and I was hoping to come in on budget, stupid me. They did show me where the oil pump had some scoring on the inside of it. Again to be fair they did point that out after the rebuild.



I did get my old parts back, and the top of the piston had much more carbon that I would have thought. I did use fuel system Techron cleaner a couple of times and did not lug the bike. Has only 15k miles on it. I'll take a picture and post it.

Overall I'm very pleased, it's like a new bike again, but faster. Also Reggie Sr came out talked to me about how it was going to run, if you have any problems etc bring it back. You do like that personcal service when the owner's son makes sure you're happy.

So around 600 miles I bring it back for the final tune, it is running a little rich right now. Another weird thing, I have a D&D 2 into 1 pipe (normal baffle) and loved the sound. Now that the compression is raised it is noticably louder.
Or as the tech told me it's crisper. When I was cruising it was almost passive you hear but doesn't bother you. Now I hear it all the time and it does start to annoy you. Anyone else experience this? Time for the quiet baffle?
 

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Al you haven't got into the meat of that cam yet. Mine comes on at 2,800 and pulls strong and fast right up to the rev limiter. The high compression exhaust is music to my ears. I ran 50 Torco for my first two oil changes and now run amsoil straight 60. The bike is as quiet as stock. There is a little whine with the gear drive but hardly noticable. No oil cooler and rode to Sturgis. The temps were 90 and above every day and it never overheated. had to use octane booster out there. The gas was terrible. Never had a problem in Ma. with the 93 octane. Give it time, the first time you let it rip it will put a smile on your face.

Good luck,
Dave
 

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:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

I think you are going to love it once you start playing with it.

Time will tell.






If you don't like it, you can always trade it off for an 80" EVO.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Labor for oil pump

I was thinking the same thing about the oil pump, they mention it when I first got a quote almost by default they are going to replace it. It was slightly scored on the side of it, but the way they mentioned it when I got the quote iit was almost a given. What pissed me off was the $100 or so installation. What did it take to replace the oil pump once the cam chest was out? 10 minutes at best.

I hope I get more than 100/100.

Good thing was that the runout on the crank was only .003 whew.

It does have more power I can feel it when I ride 2 up with the wife, goes up a hill much quicker like the engine is not straining. I'll post my numbers when I get them.
 

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oil

DRG said:
Al you haven't got into the meat of that cam yet. Mine comes on at 2,800 and pulls strong and fast right up to the rev limiter. The high compression exhaust is music to my ears. I ran 50 Torco for my first two oil changes and now run amsoil straight 60. The bike is as quiet as stock. There is a little whine with the gear drive but hardly noticable. No oil cooler and rode to Sturgis. The temps were 90 and above every day and it never overheated. had to use octane booster out there. The gas was terrible. Never had a problem in Ma. with the 93 octane. Give it time, the first time you let it rip it will put a smile on your face.

Good luck,
Dave
I would think that the straight 50-60wt oil would be hard on parts at cold starts. The oil pump is going to have a hard time moving it when its cold and thick, Thats the reason for multi wt oils, So the pump can move it when cold.:whisper:
 

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DeluxeAl said:
One more item, I have an estimate of what it was going to cost, it was not cheap and being married there is a budget, but the total price was 20% higher than the original estimate. Didn't like that at all. They replaced the oil pump, and all 4 lifters, the pump was $362, and $430 installed. Wouldn't they have to take out the oil pump during the rebuild.? I could have bought a Fueling for $300. To be fair they said I may have to replace the oil pump but at a price of $300, that is a fair cry from $430. Don't like to bitch about money but it is a factor and I was hoping to come in on budget, stupid me. They did show me where the oil pump had some scoring on the inside of it. Again to be fair they did point that out after the rebuild.



I did get my old parts back, and the top of the piston had much more carbon that I would have thought. I did use fuel system Techron cleaner a couple of times and did not lug the bike. Has only 15k miles on it. I'll take a picture and post it.

Overall I'm very pleased, it's like a new bike again, but faster. Also Reggie Sr came out talked to me about how it was going to run, if you have any problems etc bring it back. You do like that personcal service when the owner's son makes sure you're happy.
Al,
It's Randy, I talked to you when I was out there at R&R and I was a little perplexed by this so although I usually mind my own business I called Art and he printed off a copy of your bill and it looks like there was a couple of things you stated that are uncharacteristic of the way I've seen them do things like the oil pump price if you look on your bill was sold to you for less money than you stated and the lifters were sold to you for less than the usual $130.00 and no labor was charged for the oil pump or the lifters, I spend a lot of time out there and I've never seen them charge extra for anything like that once they have the engine opened up. The only extra labor I saw was for installing a clutch cable and a heavy duty spring. Look at your bill and you'll see that I'm right. Not trying to ruffle any feathers or anything. Enjoy!
 

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They use Torco 50w oil because thru their testing, have found it to aerate less than multi viscosity oil. Excessive aeration leads to oil coming from the heads into the intake.

I have that cam. Don't worry. It will stretch your arms when you get into the cams sweet spot...starting around 2800-3000 all the way to the top!
 

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Well congrats on the build. sounds like it will be a runner.

Just a question though. I wonder why they dont like baisley springs. Are they saying the spring pressure is too much for the scavenge side of the pump??
Just curious as i have never heard a bad thing about it...
 

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KingofCubes said:
Al,
It's Randy, I talked to you when I was out there at R&R and I was a little perplexed by this so although I usually mind my own business I called Art and he printed off a copy of your bill and it looks like there was a couple of things you stated that are uncharacteristic of the way I've seen them do things like the oil pump price if you look on your bill was sold to you for less money than you stated and the lifters were sold to you for less than the usual $130.00 and no labor was charged for the oil pump or the lifters, I spend a lot of time out there and I've never seen them charge extra for anything like that once they have the engine opened up. The only extra labor I saw was for installing a clutch cable and a heavy duty spring. Look at your bill and you'll see that I'm right. Not trying to ruffle any feathers or anything. Enjoy!
Sorry Randy, but this post would have been better off as a PM to DeluxeAl JMHO
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Randy,
You were right the pump was only $342 not the $362 I quoted and the install price was from the tech who gave me the bill. Yes they did add a clutch cable and a heavy duty clutch spring for a prearranged price of $120.
I was just a little surprised to see the bill higher than I thought that's all. What my wife said look at this way you got almost a whole new motor.

I couldn't be happy with the motor and the work top notch and looks like lots of people uses R&R heads, And Reggie Sr. couldn't have been nicer with the tour of the place and making sure I was happy after I got the bike.

I also got a call from the tech after he tore the bike down and he gave me a rundown of what it looked like and what he was going to do. Also gave me advice on the Baisley spring and the motor work in general. I can't tell you how valuable that is to talk to the guy doing the work, again a big plus for R&R service.

Hope this makes sense.
 

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I have a question, do you have the timken bearing in the bottom end?? I only ask because isn't .003 the max runout for gear drives? and won't the runout continue to get worse if its not a timken bearing?


Sounds like a really nice build. Post some pictures as im sure others would agree too.
 

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Dirtrace, when the weather starts to turn cold up here I switch to 20-50 amsoil. The 60w performed great in the high temps. Oil pressure was always between 20-30psi hot with the R&R camplate.

Dave
 

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DeluxeAl said:
I was thinking the same thing about the oil pump, they mention it when I first got a quote almost by default they are going to replace it. It was slightly scored on the side of it, but the way they mentioned it when I got the quote iit was almost a given. What pissed me off was the $100 or so installation. What did it take to replace the oil pump once the cam chest was out? 10 minutes at best.
For $429 you could of had the new SE Camplate with the new 07 style oil pump.

That is the first time I have ever heard that about the baisley spring...I certainly have one as well as many others. What exactly does that mean, only creates oil pressure on one side and not the return...duh that's the scavenge side and is a function of the oil pump's scavenge gerotor.

Hope you come to peace with it all and enjoy your bike.

Regards,
NC
 

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wildey said:
I have a question, do you have the timken bearing in the bottom end?? I only ask because isn't .003 the max runout for gear drives? and won't the runout continue to get worse if its not a timken bearing?


Sounds like a really nice build. Post some pictures as im sure others would agree too.

Timken bearing will not stop runout, it only stablizes or supports the crank to better to handle it's load. To stop runout, you need to prevent any movement of the flywheel assembly through pro-plugging and/or welding.
Regards,
NC
 

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I think that an aftermarket cam plate can mask the problems with runout as far as the gear drive is concerned. No matter what anyone says, higher compression engines are louder with the same exhaust, the hotter cam even louder.
A built engine vs another built engine can be quieter than the other, it depends on how everything works together. A built engine will always be louder than a stock engine.
If you are going to go to the quieter baffle, do so before your final tune.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
That's what I think also, time for the quieter baffle as much as I liked the original sound of the D&D 2 into 1 baffle. Like the tech said it does make a crisper sound or a louder bang.
 

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KingofCubes said:
Thanks BV, I stand corrected.
Al, thanks for the PM.

Randy,

Thank you for all your excellant advice....:thanks:
 
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