[Paniolo]

My bike is an older 2001 Ultra with M&M FI.
It has 95" kit, .203 cams, TrueDuals, and SE intake.

It always had been a bear to tune. In the old days of PCIII, all they could do was richen the mixture to get rid of the ping. When the SERT for M&M came out, I had the bike dyno tuned, and it runs great. The dyno tune produced a great running bike, but it continued to ping occasionally, mostly on hot days. I took the bike back to the dyno guy, and he had to retard some timing out to get rid of the ping. He showed me how to do it if it ever started again.

Is it possible to pull too much timing out, even if it's to get rid of pinging?
What could happen if the bike is retarded too much?

Would swapping cams help? I have no idea what cam to go to.
I do prefer TQ down low and in the midrange.

Would a porting job on the heads make a difference?

Thanks

 

[Seahag]

My bike is an older 2001 Ultra with M&M FI.
It has 95" kit, .203 cams, TrueDuals, and SE intake.

It always had been a bear to tune. In the old days of PCIII, all they could do was richen the mixture to get rid of the ping. When the SERT for M&M came out, I had the bike dyno tuned, and it runs great. The dyno tune produced a great running bike, but it continued to ping occasionally, mostly on hot days. I took the bike back to the dyno guy, and he had to retard some timing out to get rid of the ping. He showed me how to do it if it ever started again.

Is it possible to pull too much timing out, even if it's to get rid of pinging?
It is possible, but probably not that likely if its still pinging. Daytona Twin Tec recommends retarding timing by 3* at point of ping...so get a good fix on the rpm and load range where it pings and try no more than 5* retard. If it needs more than 5*, you probably need to add fuel.

What could happen if the bike is retarded too much?
If your bike is retarded too far, it will ignite the mixture too late and the piston will already be decending on its power stroke before the bulk of the charge is burned...costing you power and creating more heat in your motor.

Would swapping cams help? I have no idea what cam to go to.
I do prefer TQ down low and in the midrange.
New cams could help...but you'd need to tune your bike again for those cams anyway. There is no reason your 95" build shouldn't work well with flat tops & mild compression. What builds the low end torque is the high dynamic compression of the charge due to the early closing event of the 203's intake timing. If you go with a later closing cam, you lose bottom end unless you compensate with higher lift or higher compression. The only reason I see to change your cam is if you are unhappy with the performance or want to switch to gear drive...in which case I'd recommend the Andrews Tw-26G

Would a porting job on the heads make a difference?
Porting your heads will allow your motor to breathe in and out easier. This will create more power...and since the exhaust gasses should be flowing out faster, less heat should soak into the heads. Most of the difference will be made in the increase in power.

Thanks

Hope I've helped.

 

[Paniolo]

Well I'm happy with the way the bike performs.

I was just worried that I might do damage, or lose too much low end, if I pull out too much timing. If anything, I want MORE low end grunt. That is why when I read the posting about the guy who changed cams and got rid of pinging, I became interested. Would the Tw-26 help me in this area?

Would cleaning up the heads help me with the heat issues? Pinging seems most prevelent on hot days.

Thanks

 

[ViennaHog]

Well I'm happy with the way the bike performs.

I was just worried that I might do damage, or lose too much low end, if I pull out too much timing. If anything, I want MORE low end grunt. That is why when I read the posting about the guy who changed cams and got rid of pinging, I became interested. Would the Tw-26 help me in this area?

Would cleaning up the heads help me with the heat issues? Pinging seems most prevelent on hot days.

Thanks

I had the 203s in early versions of my engine. It had a tendency to ping at light loads around 2500 -3000 rpm when hot with SE ignition module that came with the kit. On occasion we took off the heads and found substantial carbon build up which i believe was part of the problem. I later learned the water spray trick to rmove the build up and I do it several times during the season. The pistons are very clean, littlle or no build up on the valves.
give it a try before you dive into fixing symptons instead of dealing with the root cause. Just my $0.02

 

[bbrowncods]

What is the water spray trick?

 

[ViennaHog]

What is the water spray trick?

remove a/c, lock throttle around 2500 rpm at normal operating temperature and spray water in the intake by using a pump spray bottle. You are applying the right amount when the engine starts to hesitate.
Back off with the amount when the engine starts to lose significant rpms say 500rpm, wait for rpm recovery and continue until you use up about a quart.
Do it away from populated areas, may create a lot of smoke. The temperature shock inside the engine basically blasts off the build ups and ejects them through the exhaust valve. I would not use a hose as the risk of hydro locking the engine is significant.
I found this time tested trick several years ago searching on the web and started using it in 2003.

No implied warranties........

 

[Paniolo]

remove a/c, lock throttle around 2500 rpm at normal operating temperature and spray water in the intake by using a pump spray bottle. You are applying the right amount when the engine starts to hesitate.
Back off with the amount when the engine starts to lose significant rpms say 500rpm, wait for rpm recovery and continue until you use up about a quart.
Do it away from populated areas, may create a lot of smoke. The temperature shock inside the engine basically blasts off the build ups and ejects them through the exhaust valve. I would not use a hose as the risk of hydro locking the engine is significant.
I found this time tested trick several years ago searching on the web and started using it in 2003.

No implied warranties........

I see you have a carb on your bike. I have FI. Would that make a difference? I don't want to screw anything up here.

 

[ViennaHog]

I see you have a carb on your bike. I have FI. Would that make a difference? I don't want to screw anything up here.

Don't think EFI makes difference.

 

[bbrowncods]

Great idea! My sons car had a blown head gasket on his car and when we pulled the head the two blown cylinders looked shiny new. Now I know why! :brows:

 

[hotshotfxdl]

I had the 203s in early versions of my engine. It had a tendency to ping at light loads around 2500 -3000 rpm when hot with SE ignition module that came with the kit. On occasion we took off the heads and found substantial carbon build up which i believe was part of the problem. I later learned the water spray trick to rmove the build up and I do it several times during the season. The pistons are very clean, littlle or no build up on the valves.
give it a try before you dive into fixing symptons instead of dealing with the root cause. Just my $0.02

Cool never heard of this sounds like a good thing to do several times a year.
I'd like to think there isnt much build up as I like to stay on the throttle but I dont see where it could hurt.