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ovanay elinquentday
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just talked to a fairly knowledgeable area tuner and he highly preferred the PC over the SERT. His rationale- adjustments to the PC were real-time and he could do cell by cell adjustments on the dyno as he read the fuel ratio. The SERT takes an iterative process. Read the bike on the dyno. Adjust the SERT. Load the map. Read the bike...... He felt with the iterative process he could get close, but it took a lot more dyno runs and in the end, the finest tweaks could be made real-time with the PC on the dyno.

I've got the SERT. I'm getting more and more familiar with it, and have used it for street data collection runs. It's kind of hard to disagree with this tuner's logic though.

Any other thoughts?
 

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Premium Member
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1,163 Posts
The PcIII changes signals after the ECM, and the SERT reburns the ECM prom. That's why it's important to go to a SERT tuner that is real good with the SERT program, and what is happening within the engine, and where to tweak it to get the results. I agree it would be so much easier, but the ECM isn't set up for a "try" mode, it's all final because you have to reburn the prom.

Thorns
 

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XLIII
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10,078 Posts
I can't give you a first hand answer from a tuner's perspective, all I can tell you is my observations. If a garden variety mechanic hasn't been to the SERT school, he really doesn't have the knowledge he needs to use it to its potential (HDWRENCH and GROCK excluded). A real sharp guy can pick it up from somebody who did well at the SERT school (the tech I use is like that).
The shop I go to compares the SERT to an X-Box, with the PC being an original Nintendo. And the SERT, as mentioned above, does reprogram the ECM and is not an add-on that changes signals downstream from the ECM like the PC.
All that being said, ya gotta go with what the tuner you use is comfortable with.
One shop not too far from me that used to be THE place to go for performance work doesn't have one tech that has been to SERT school, AFAIK, and they have wrecked their reputation by recommending and using the SERT exclusively, and using it poorly.

YMMV,
 

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First off, I'm not a pro tuner. I've been around it and done it on my bike on the dyno with the SERT though.

There are advantages and disadvantages to everything. The one your tuner notes makes his job easier, quicker to tune, costs you less dyno time. (Although my neighbors tune just took 4 hrs with a PCIIIusb.) My total SERT dyno time of actual tuning took 5 hrs and that was a total tune, fuel, spark, WOT and all the cruise loads too.

Even with the new Rev limit change allowed by the latest version of the PC, it still does not allow you to do things that the SERT does, like Idle, rpm, IAC, Constants, Warmup Enrich, Cranking Fuel, Accel Enrich, Decel Enlean. And how do you data record with the Power Commander? How do you see if the knock sensor is being hit? How do you retrieve DTC's? I have PCIIIusb ver 3.1.3 loaded on my pc and don't see these options available.

And I believe that combined with the cost of the PC, you may still need the dealer ECU downloads for the right starting point. If that is the case, it is more expensive and the probably a tradeoff on dyno time.

Again, the single biggest problem I see locally with tuners is not adjusting spark. My neighbors new PC map is a great example of that. They down loaded the Stage 2 1550 map and then used the PC purely as a fuel adjuster.

My tuner goes to great extent to check spark and see if there is anymore HP/TQ hiding in there and of course, this is balanced against knock sensitivity.
 

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Your tuners prespective is correct, it much easier for him. If I had an FI bike it wouldn't get either the PC or SERT. I would use Direct Link by Techno Research. It has the postives of both as you tune in real time like the PC and have all the features the SERT has, + a few. If your going to try to tune it yourself it's on the cost prohibitive side due to software cost, but if you're not which I think most people would be better off not trying to do themselves then it's the way to go and they offered an MM tuner before HD did.

http://www.technoresearch.com/Products/Direct-Link/Direct-Link.htm
 
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