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I just recently purchased an 06 ultra classic and am in the process of having the cylinders bored to 95 ci., screaming eagle high performance heads, 10.5 to 1 comp., screaming eagle 9.6 to 1 forged pistons, a S&S 570G gear drive cam, SE high flow air cleaner, SERT, and rinehart true dual exhaust. I chose these parts, and was hoping someone could tell me if it was a good choice, especially the cam choice.
 

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I dont like that choice of cam for your bike.................cams like the TW5, A26, A21, will put up much more torque than the 570 in the usable rpm range and make your ride far more enjoyable then hangin on at a 100 mph when your cam gets on the numbers..

All the best, Ozzie
 

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lumpy3148 said:
i hope you can find high grade gas.
Besides the gas issue, I'm not sure I would like to kiss off my warranty like that. I'd at least ride it a couple years till the warranty ran out.
 

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Ozzie In Arabia said:
I dont like that choice of cam for your bike.................cams like the TW5, A26, A21, will put up much more torque than the 570 in the usable rpm range and make your ride far more enjoyable then hangin on at a 100 mph when your cam gets on the numbers..

All the best, Ozzie
If you like the S&S cams, switch to the 510G. You'll be a lot better off on the heavy bagger.

Ditto on the compression, it will need to be at or below 10:1 static. You will have much fewer problems if you make these changes.

Also, I would go with the SE cast flat tops, probably a much better choice for the street. Take the money you save on the forged pistons and put it towards paying a top tuner with a dyno that knows the SERT.

Good luck!
 

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You may want to look into a 2-1 pipe rather than the Rheinharts. They are more for looks and sound than power.
Ken
 

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Yeah, what Oz said. You will be falling over yourself waiting for the cam to hit with that bike. Unless you like running in the high R's all the time you will be quicker with a cam that comes on a bit earlier. Better low speed and passing power with plenty of room on the high end when needed with those heads if you get off of the 570. With heads my suggestion is the Wood tw5 or the Andrews 37. You'll get around 100 TQ and in the 90's on HP with the 37 with smooth, strong and reliable power; and a bit better with the TW5, but a little noisier valve train. Good luck.

(Hey Oz, only 'cause you asked!)
 

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SILVER BULLET said:
What Ozzie said ! Too much cam for a heavy bike. Glad to be alive.
Hello Again Bullet, good to see you here mate, good to be alive too!...................gonna knock on your door in December/January, if my rear wheel debacle gets sorted out.

My software is telling me to go with the following build:


Ports bored and opened up to 1.7 intake/1.5 exhaust-------with 1.9 Intake valve, 1.615 Exhaust valve
Your famous porting, springs, retainers, locks, guide modifications, valve seat blending............9.8:1 comp ratio
51mm Horsepower Inc. T/Body tapering back and match porting to 1.7 intake diameter..............also has to be 7.5 inches long from head to opening at T/Body.
Horsepower Inc. Hi performance Aircleaner and crank breather asembly.......it is actually 3/4" of an inch thinner than stock A/C and flows 70% more than stock if you believe their website (like I do).......at least then I will reach the rear brake without becoming too bow legged.

98" Axtell Steel lined cylinders and piston kit.

Woods TW5 gear drive cam................

HDWrench Roller rockers

My software shows the pipes to have an internal diameter of 1-5/8 and 50" equal length.

The intake diameter, taper and length and pipe length show a major influence in the overall curve.

The above setup gives a broad torque curve and is showing 121tq/114Hp.....just wonder how close the real world gets to the above figures.

GRock has stated that the current injectors are ok to support up to approx. 114 hp.........my software indicates I need to go up in injector size to 35lb at 80% duty cycle per hour and maintain a minimum of 55lb rail pressure to sustain 120 hp.

I will be sending you my heads and cam plate and sending money for you to purchase the cams and Horsepower Inc T/Body so that you can match port it to the heads, and getting you to install the cams and fit the gear drive setup as I have no workshop here at all and later want to do the install my self...........this is no disrespect to the HD Shop here as Willy is a first class mechanic..........but I can hardly come on here and preach anything without first doing it myself.
Later I hope to publish pics and a step by step procedure of a tear down/re-build for the novices here to get a look into engine upgrades.

All the best, Ozzie
 

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bemisbunker said:
I just recently purchased an 06 ultra classic and am in the process of having the cylinders bored to 95 ci., screaming eagle high performance heads, 10.5 to 1 comp., screaming eagle 9.6 to 1 forged pistons, a S&S 570G gear drive cam, SE high flow air cleaner, SERT, and rinehart true dual exhaust. I chose these parts, and was hoping someone could tell me if it was a good choice, especially the cam choice.
Not sure that the wording is 100% correct, but typically a set of SE performance heads, .030 gaskets and flat tops comes out at 10 CR. I have a couple dozen of them running around with 570's, most in touring bikes, and some with the same pipes.
If the bike is decently tuned you are looking at 95 to 98 HP and about 105 to 108 TQ with the drivability of an electric motor, ie they do not have the big punch at a given rpm you get with more cranking pressure and/or smaller cams, but they do pull everywhere. Some of these are 2 or 3 years old and not one of the owners has asked for a different combination.

The one issue I can see with a 06 bike is that a custom RT map would have to be done almost inmediately as the 06 maps seem to be junk.
 

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Re-reading your post, everything is fine, except use flat tops. You will not like the 570 at 10.5CR and you will have to use compression releases frequently.
 

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GRock said:
Yeah, what Oz said. You will be falling over yourself waiting for the cam to hit with that bike. Unless you like running in the high R's all the time you will be quicker with a cam that comes on a bit earlier. Better low speed and passing power with plenty of room on the high end when needed with those heads if you get off of the 570. With heads my suggestion is the Wood tw5 or the Andrews 37. You'll get around 100 TQ and in the 90's on HP with the 37 with smooth, strong and reliable power; and a bit better with the TW5, but a little noisier valve train. Good luck.
Hey Rock.................great to see you here mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............just need the Doc to chime in to complete the circle.......and may the force be with you...........(just saw Starwars III and kindasee some resembelences here ha!)

All the best, Ozzie
 

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Ozzie In Arabia said:
Hello Again Bullet, good to see you here mate, good to be alive too!...................gonna knock on your door in December/January, if my rear wheel debacle gets sorted out.

My software is telling me to go with the following build:


Ports bored and opened up to 1.7 intake/1.5 exhaust-------with 1.9 Intake valve, 1.615 Exhaust valve
Your famous porting, springs, retainers, locks, guide modifications, valve seat blending............9.8:1 comp ratio
51mm Horsepower Inc. T/Body tapering back and match porting to 1.7 intake diameter..............also has to be 7.5 inches long from head to opening at T/Body.
Horsepower Inc. Hi performance Aircleaner and crank breather asembly.......it is actually 3/4" of an inch thinner than stock A/C and flows 70% more than stock if you believe their website (like I do).......at least then I will reach the rear brake without becoming too bow legged.

98" Axtell Steel lined cylinders and piston kit.

Woods TW5 gear drive cam................

HDWrench Roller rockers

My software shows the pipes to have an internal diameter of 1-5/8 and 50" equal length.

The intake diameter, taper and length and pipe length show a major influence in the overall curve.

The above setup gives a broad torque curve and is showing 121tq/114Hp.....just wonder how close the real world gets to the above figures.

GRock has stated that the current injectors are ok to support up to approx. 114 hp.........my software indicates I need to go up in injector size to 35lb at 80% duty cycle per hour and maintain a minimum of 55lb rail pressure to sustain 120 hp.

I will be sending you my heads and cam plate and sending money for you to purchase the cams and Horsepower Inc T/Body so that you can match port it to the heads, and getting you to install the cams and fit the gear drive setup as I have no workshop here at all and later want to do the install my self...........this is no disrespect to the HD Shop here as Willy is a first class mechanic..........but I can hardly come on here and preach anything without first doing it myself.
Later I hope to publish pics and a step by step procedure of a tear down/re-build for the novices here to get a look into engine upgrades.

All the best, Ozzie
A 98" with 1.615 exhaust valve, 9.8 comp ratio, and the TW5 cam DOES NOT get you to 114 HP & 121 TQ, I don't give a rat's ass what the software says.
(Sorry Oz, you wanted me to respond more often, so there it is!!!! :2flips: )

;)
And as the Bullet would say............ "The Queen Sucks!"

%[email protected] You were right, I did miss this place a little! Hah!!
 

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GRock said:
A 98" with 1.615 exhaust valve, 9.8 comp ratio, and the TW5 cam DOES NOT get you to 114 HP & 121 TQ, I don't give a rat's ass what the software says.
(Sorry Oz, you wanted me to respond more often, so there it is!!!! :2flips: )

;)
And as the Bullet would say............ "The Queen Sucks!"

%[email protected] You were right, I did miss this place a little! Hah!!
Welcome back, I think......hmmm............nah just playin wid ya.............

yeah your right about the software Rock, too many variables to be sure about anything..........I really dont know what the figures will really be until I try this and then I will only be able to second guess those results anyway as there is no dyno here to confirm anything.

What exhaust valve size do you think I need?

What injector size should I go for........or is stock ok?

What is the actual fuel pressure for the twinkie?

Some of the big players are modifiying the fuel system to get higher pressure........so what would this do for a performance improvement?

All the best, Ozzie
 

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Sorry for hijacking your thread bemisbunker..............but you have some of the big boys of the forum trying to assist you here......................and they will get you sorted out.

All the best, Ozzie
 

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Ozzie In Arabia said:
I dont like that choice of cam for your bike.................cams like the TW5, A26, A21, will put up much more torque than the 570 in the usable rpm range and make your ride far more enjoyable then hangin on at a 100 mph when your cam gets on the numbers..

All the best, Ozzie
I believe the screaming eagle heads and S&S 570G is highly recommended for baggers by Hippo. And I assume a guy with his experience, who rides a bagger himself, would have a good idea of the combo he often recommends. I've heard many of the guys over on HTT running this setup, rave how much they like it.
I know everyone has certain cams they like to recommend, and here it seems to be Andrews, Woods cams....But does anyone saying its too much cam, actually have experience with the setup in question?


P.S...I could delete this post since I read through and saw Hippo weighed in on the package, but I thought I'd leave it up as a reminder that these are all just opinions...some more educated to make the opinions than others, but opinions nonetheless.
 

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Don't get me wrong, in fact I have used many more Andrews cams then S&S cams, and ocasionally others.
The small Andrews cams like the 21 and 26 as used by AMS make for very nice builds, but you are not going to use these with SE performance heads on a 95" with good squish height and be happy. They require bigger chambers.
The single cam I have used the most is the Andrews 37, and I run one of them in my bike, but I wouldn't use it with the SE heads either.

Only reason I don't run the 570 is that it would have required the purchase of the SE heads. Doesn't cost me a thing to modify my own heads.
I still consider the SE/[email protected] slightly superior to what I have in mine.
I'm not all that concerned with where the heads or the cams come from, but with how well a given combination plays together.
 

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Thanks for clarifying there Hippo....

Wow, posting at 2:44am....did you get a night shift job too:hystria:
 

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Everyone will have a pet cam and a formula for what they believe is THE build..........Each of the GURUS on here can produce a setup that works and convince everyone on here that it is the ants pants..........some will produce evidence that it works via dyno graph........me, I got 18 years riding jappers at superbike level..........and 40 years on bikes, (thirty years which made sense) does not make me a star by any means...................but does let me know what works.

Been in motorcycle club life for a long time (30 plus years) helped fix and own many bikes, jappers, brits, Harleys, for our members, learnt from some of the best Australia has to offer, and international, do have an idea of what works............what might work.................what shouldnt work but does......and what definiteley doesn`t.

The Twinkie as the EVO did and as the Shovel before it all respond best to a short duration, high lift cams.............for STREET applications.

In the old days Leinweber held its own as being the widest duration cam available to the drag boys...............and won some races, big races......because the people using it understood what else they had to do to make it work.

These wide duration cams were sellers because the industry was telling the public that Horsepower rules...........and it was an impressive point when made.............just simply not correct for the V8 or the V-Twin.

Those who raced V8`s and Harleys new that horsepower was not the winner of races but TORQUE was.............it just did not sell to the 60`s and 70`s, 80`s and part of the 90`s crowd.

Then a few of the top racers started to spill the beans about torque and nowadays it is the new ruler............torque rules..........and finally the modern public realises that this is now the correct idea.

The truth is Torque has been the winner of all 1/4 mile races and anything up to 5250 rpm in V-8`s and V-Twins ever since...............after this is when the horsepower takes over and moves the bike up in rpm and produces high numbers and winning results IF the engine is allowed to rev out.

The 1900 odd V-Twin design all but rules out any high rpm racing due to its 100 year old design...........high piston speeds, pushrods, etc. etc.

But very rarly do the builders or anyone else for that matter put all the cams against each other to see who the ruler is.

The descision about the build ALWAYS comes back to the riding habits of the rider..................what will make this rider happiest..............and that relates to how much experience he has!..............any build above stock will show an improvement and the rider will experience this and mostly be happy............what the GURUS on here have tried to say is go with a particular build and be very happy..............BUT realise any shortfalls........

Does he want a bike that gets it on from say 1800 rpm through to 4000 possibly 4500 rpm.................these bikes TO ME...........are the most fun to ride as you can spin the rear tire at will..............lift the front up at speeds that even a novice can handle..............run 2 up all day long and pass most vehicles (within the rpm limits of the cam) safely, with speed and efficiency, carrying everything but the bath tub!


OR​

Does he want a bike that is light, and builds its torque at 5000 rpm......................this bike generally requires lower drive ratios to get it to work efficiently...............then gets the rider to work it in the mid to upper rpm range and be on the throttle................now the bike starts to become purpose built..........not necessarily at any limits yet but now go on a run with the guys who like to run at 2200 rpm on their trips and now see where this bike has to constantly change gear to stay with the pack.


OR​

Does he want a saturday night special............purpose built radical cam *** beater cause they are there to build...............just now they are on the edge of what is considered practical on the street............but sheeet, try saying that to the guy who owns it!

So asking anyones opinion on here as to a particular build is certain to cause a lot of arguments.....................as long as they are healthy I believe then thats when we all learn.

How do I know this...........EXPERIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I keep ranting about this desk top dyno and many of the top guys on here repute what I have to say on some issues.......................I accept that as I have no possible way to tell if this software works.............no dyno here to back me up.............and these guys DO have the numbers to back them up.

What I am going to do is get one of the top guys in the engine mod forum to put together all the things that this software is telling me to do and see if that works like I believe it will.

Pretty tough to convince a guy that has THE build to be happy with it if he is eyeing another cam...........etc.

BIGGEST LET DOWN IS TO GO FROM THE CAM............WHICH PRODUCES THE BEST PERFORMANCE BUT HAS OTHER ISSUES ATTACHED TO IT, LIKE NOISE ETC. TO A LESSER CAM...............as the guy will always remember the shortfall from this and will be even less happy than before.

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IF YOU OWNLY NEW WHAT I WANTED TO SAY..................THE NOVICES ON HERE CAN VERY QUICKLY DRIVE A WEDGE INTO THE GURUS BY NOT BEING CAREFUL IN WHAT THEY SAY................

I will no longer offer any advice to anyone pming me asking me to put their particular build through my software........after all it is just an opinion...........................

I certainly can not compete with the builders on here as I am no longer actively building and tuning engines, except for my own, so I dont believe I can contribute any further on this forum.

Ozzie.........there a long one for a change.............Rock, Doc, Bullet, now I understand!
 

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Got to stick with my convictions...........what I am about to say.........has no disrespect for Hippo or his experience, knowledge, anything........but for you novices and for the record...............

If I could get the heads built to my specs.......with the flow numbers I want,
have the intake sized and match ported to my specs, run the pipes I want to run, have both bikes and riders and launch control exactly the same..................(like on a desk top dyno where these parameters can not change)................

I would put the TW5, Andrews 26 WITH .580 lift against the 570 and beat it in the quarter mile every time.............but that is just an opinion.

Ozzie
 
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