V-Twin Forum banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am thinking about the PCIII for an 06 Ultrac. Does the installation affect the warranty????

Thanks in advance!!
 

·
Infidel
Joined
·
6,331 Posts
Probably.

What exactly are you doing this for?

Why not just go with the Screaming Eagle Race Tuner?

That way you can adjust your ECM instead of trying to trick it.
 

·
Road Captain
Joined
·
6,628 Posts
henryjw1 said:
I am thinking about the PCIII for an 06 Ultrac. Does the installation affect the warranty????

Thanks in advance!!
...depends on your dealer. If he installs it you probably won't have any problems. If you're out on the road and have problems, you can remove it and depending on how mounted it, there will not be a trace for the warranty to be questioned.

There are other opinions and that's OK. Keep in mind that although the SERT provides a great more tuning points.....it has a larger training curve. That sorta ties you to the Dealer (if his folks are trained).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
503 Posts
henryjw1 said:
I am thinking about the PCIII for an 06 Ultrac. Does the installation affect the warranty????

Thanks in advance!!

Henry, no company can void a warranty unless they proved the added part caused the failure ...IE power comander set very lean and scuffing a piston . A pc cannot hurt your front break ,or stereo ...My 2001 ultra with 80,000 miles has warranty for 5 yrs... they have changed cams (@65000 miles) new set of flywheels (@37,000 miles) all with power comander from day one.

Good Luck

Steve The Dyno Guy :cheers:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Have A 05 Road King Classic , stock except for A/C, Pipes, stage 1 flash, and PCIII. Had the ECM go bad dealer voided warranty and backed up by MoCo.
 

·
Delinquent
Joined
·
1,780 Posts
roadrunnerldw1 said:
Have A 05 Road King Classic , stock except for A/C, Pipes, stage 1 flash, and PCIII. Had the ECM go bad dealer voided warranty and backed up by MoCo.
Did you take that as the final answer or did you ask them to provide proof that the PC caused the failure?

It's possible that it did, but I would have researched the law and taken the steps needed to make them prove it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
675 Posts
The PCIII doesn't trick the ECM; that was the PCII. And, as has been said, for the addtion of a part to void a warranty, it has to be shown that the part caused on in a major way contributed to the failure of the warranted part. IMHO, going to the dealer to report a problem and having a PCIII connected to your bike at the same time is like wearing a "kick me" sign. It's just an invitation to focus on the PC as the problem, whether it is or not. If you're going to the dealer, take the PC off first.

That said, if you're dealer-dependent, just get the SERT and be done with it. On the other hand, if you like to work on your own bike, and you want the PCIII, get it, but just take it off in the event you do have to visit the dealer.

Ragnar
 

·
Total Nutcase
Joined
·
2,691 Posts
Ragnar said:
That said, if you're dealer-dependent, just get the SERT and be done with it. On the other hand, if you like to work on your own bike, and you want the PCIII, get it, but just take it off in the event you do have to visit the dealer.

Ragnar

That's sort of a catch-22. The only reason to buy a PC is because you've modified the bike. Take it off and the bike won't run correctly.
 

·
Road Captain
Joined
·
6,628 Posts
JamieWG,
You are correct if the bike is taken to 95' or better. But just air and exhaust wouldn't be in the catch-22 category. Then of course, how far you have to travel lean is another factor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,981 Posts
You all keep saying get a SERT instead but as soon as you install the SERT, it automatically voids your warranty also. I had some warranty work done on my bike couple of times at different dealers in different states. They never said a word about the PCIII on my bike just did the work and got me going. Granted, the electrical issues were not anything that the PCIII could have had any effect on but nonetheless, pc was never mentioned other than to tell me that the bike ran great when they test rode after repairs and two different guys asked me who did the dyno/map for me.....
 

·
Hellbound Train
Joined
·
5,595 Posts
Don't know the % but many dealers will not void the warranty for a SERT.
1. Properly tuned, it makes the bike run better.
2. It is a MOCO part and if your dealer installs it, he would look pretty stupid claiming it wasn't tuned right.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,928 Posts
think i will just sit back and watch this thread for awhile.:chopper:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
675 Posts
Laying back...sounds like a good plan. I know if I'd asked this question, I'd probably just leave the bike stock and forget about it. Probably the right way to look at this is that once you start to modify the bike, you takes your chances. If having a 100% certainty that the warranty is unaffected is your primary goal, then leaving the bike stock is probably the best way to go. On the other hand, there are good dealers, not-so-good dealers, and ones that are just this side of criminal. Which kind you have probably makes a difference. From my point of view, if I wanted to do some mild modifications, I wouldn't let warranty concerns stand in my way. Looking at it this way, whether you pick the PC or the SERT probably doesn't matter. The choice is really between those and doing nothing.

Ragnar
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
356 Posts
I purchased an 05 RK Classic back in November and had the dealer talk me into the extended warranty. Finally realizing that I may be doing minor modifications to the bike (exhaust, PCIII, AC) up front I was not too worried about the Extended Warranty. Then, I decided to do a cam as well, and maybe even some other mods. Well, I called the dealer today to say I wanted to just cancel the warranty and get a refund. He tried to convince me that these things would not void the warranty, yada yada yada. He spoke of his own experiences and how it did not void the warranty on his bike (lets look at HD employee vs average joe with modified bike). Bottom line is each dealer is going to handle it differently and I for one had a hell of an engine build on my last bike with no problems and I can only assume, if possible, that minor modifications are not going to cause a problem. I will take my chances on minor things knowing that $1300 down the road can buy a lot of gas, chrome, and engine work. In the midwest we can still do a deal with a handshake. Get out to either the left or right coast, things might be different and a dealer would void a warranty for putting synthetic air in the tires and having it 2psi lower than recommended. The warranty is only as good as the dealer that is backing it, and unfortunately when you are on the road, the buddy that sold you the warranty is not there to back it up when you are 1500 miles away with a PCIII and V&H pipes on your bike and it is broken down . Just my 2 cents worth. %[email protected]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
422 Posts
Steve Handy said:
Henry, no company can void a warranty unless they proved the added part caused the failure ...IE power comander set very lean and scuffing a piston . A pc cannot hurt your front break ,or stereo ...My 2001 ultra with 80,000 miles has warranty for 5 yrs... they have changed cams (@65000 miles) new set of flywheels (@37,000 miles) all with power comander from day one.

Good Luck

Steve The Dyno Guy :cheers:
MOCO would have unsuspecting riders convinced that you HAD to put MOCO air in their tires or your warranty would be void! What a scam. They came after us and another local shop cause we had a HD sticker on the side of our race trailer and the other shop had 4 stools in his front showroom with HD on the cushions. Kind of like a spoiled rich kid with lots of money pushing the little kids around-like a bully. Or maybe they are just getting desperate? I think Magnusan/Moss was the name of the landmark court case that made it illegal to cancel a warranty for dubious reasons. Those actions or threats are illegal. If the MOCO products and services were so good they wouldn't have to threaten you to sell them. Just my opinion, Friday
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
356 Posts
Well, it was not the normal MOCO air that would void the warranty. It was the synthetic air that others were selling because the MOCO did not have their own synthetic air. Now that they do, any type of synthetic air you put in your tires will not void the warranty. This can be found on page 24 of the owners manual on 2003 and newer scooters.:whatever:
 

·
The Anti-RUB
Joined
·
1,901 Posts
adlerx said:
You all keep saying get a SERT instead but as soon as you install the SERT, it automatically voids your warranty also.
Don't know who told you that, but they don't know what their talking about...

Legally, a vehicle manufacturer cannot void the warranty on a vehicle due to an aftermarket part unless they can prove that the aftermarket part caused or contributed to the failure in the vehicle (per the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)).

So if you install pipes and the transmission blows, your still covered under warrenty because the pipes have little to no effect on your transmission. But if those pipes cause so much back presure that the heads blow off, then the repair will not be covered under warrenty... Make sense?

Its all covered under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Read more on it here:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...s/warranty.htm
http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/magnusonmoss.htm
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=116&did=748

roadrunnerldw1 said:
Have A 05 Road King Classic , stock except for A/C, Pipes, stage 1 flash, and PCIII. Had the ECM go bad dealer voided warranty and backed up by MoCo.
I would double check that. The likelyhood that the PCIII was the problem is possible, but slim. Either way, it is up to the DEALER and/or MoCo to PROVE that your aftermarket part was the cause of the problem. Not you. See links above for tips.

Enjoy...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/magnusonmoss.htm
US Code - Title 15, Chapter 50, Sections 2301-2312
Section 2302. Rules governing contents of warranties
(a) Full and conspicuous disclosure of terms and conditions; additional requirements for contents In order to improve the adequacy of information available to consumers, prevent deception, and improve competition in the marketing of consumer products, any warrantor warranting a consumer product to a consumer by means of a written warranty shall, to the extent required by rules of the Commission, fully and conspicuously disclose in simple and readily understood language the terms and conditions of such warranty. ((Such rules may require inclusion in the written warranty of any of the following items among others:
(6) Exceptions and exclusions from the terms of the warranty.))


http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?id=8128
Federal Warranty Laws
1.The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C))
This federal law regulates warranties for the protection of consumers. The essence of the law concerning aftermarket auto parts is that a vehicle manufacturer may not condition a written or implied warranty on the consumers using parts or services which are identified by brand, trade, or corporate name (such as the vehicle maker's brand) unless the parts or service are provided free of charge. The law means that the use of an aftermarket part alone is not cause for denying the warranty. However, the law's protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty. Further, ((consumers are advised to be aware of any specific terms or conditions stated in the warranty which may result in its being voided.)) The law states in relevant part:


From the 2005 Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Limited Warranty
((Exclusions))
This warranty will not apply to any motorcycle/sidecar as follows:
2. Which has been abused, misused, improperly stored, “used off the highway,” or used for racing or competition of any kind.
3. Which is not manufufactured to comply with the laws of the market in which it is registered.

#2 Look in the Screaming Eagle catalog all items listed as race only will void the warranty. This would include the race tuner.

#3. When I put the PCIII and pipes on the bike I remanufactured the bike and it no longer complies with the emissions and noise laws of the state of Florida which it is registered in.

If you read real closely (This warranty will not apply to any motorcycle/sidecar as follows) This means that the warranty is void on the whole bike if anything in 1 or 2 apply. Also the Magnuson-Moss Act does not apply because the Exclusions the MoCo added to there warranty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
675 Posts
Try as I might, I just can't resist jumping on this ridiculous bandwagon. If the aftermarket part does not cause the failure which is the subject matter of the warranty claim, the warranty is unaffected and its terms remain in force. It's that simple. Why? First, that's the law and the express provisions of the Act. The exclusions referenced in the Act are those regarding the terms of the warranty itself. A manufacturer is under no obligation to warrant anything. And it may warrant some parts of its product but not others. It is these "others" to which the term exclusions refers. For example, a manufacturer may not condition its warranty by requiring the purchaser to perform a lap dance on Tuesdays. Obviously, the owner's failure to dance has nothing to do with the operation of the product. More to the point, HD cannot claim a proprietary design of its valve stem caps such that the use of an aftermarket cap will void the warranty with respect to the entire bike.Why? Same reason. Valve stem caps have zero to do with (most) warranty claims.
Second, any other reading of the act is just plain stupid. The entire essence of the act is to protect the consumer without hamstringing the manufacturer. Hence, the cause and effect requirement. And that's the way it is.

Of course, all this may be no more than an academic exercise; even though I am certain with no doubt or reservation whatsoever that I am right, trying to convince a parts counter guy of this fact is another matter entirely.

Ragnar
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top