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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Listened to the owner explain two things to a potential customer that didn't sound quite right, and wanted your opinions:

1) Two sets of cams of identical design except one's gear one's chain, the gear drive set gets you about 7 more HP than the chain drive set due to chain lash.

2) The new HD reduced effort clutch won't work with a 95" kit...it'll slip.


Discuss amongst yourselves....
 

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An indy told me 4 HP gain with the gear drive.

BS on the reduced effort clutch kit. I have it on my 95 and no problems whatsoever. To be clear, I have the non-HD unit... can't remember the name.
 

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0043--Licensed to Doof!
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I happen to have the HD reduced effort clutch in my 800# EGC. Add my 200# a$$ to it and we're moving a half of a ton. Add to that, HDWrench's 98" kit and his headwork (See sig below) See my earlier post from the other day doing burnouts.Bullpuckie Mine ain't slippin'! Oh yea, my clutch plates have 30K on them too!!

Now, as to my S&S 510 GEAR cams.... 7HP? Nope. One or two MAX maybe......
 

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Now, as to my S&S 510 GEAR cams.... 7HP? Nope. One or two MAX maybe......
I've talked to a couple of different shops and mechanics and most of them state a 2 to 8 HP increase w/ geared cams. I put mine in cause at < 18000 miles on my Road King the tensioners looked like, well, SH!T...Just my -2$en#e-

:dunno:
 

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1) debatable, and may vary from case to case, but I know of some instances where the only change was the same cam grind from chains to gears and there was no difference on the dyno.

2) using the 06 clutch kit from HD, or for that matter just the 06 diaphragm alone on a 95" (if it is anything near a decent 95") it's not a question of wether it slips, but a question of when, if it doesn't slip now it will soon

Even if there is no perceived slippage while riding, there is some slippage during every shift regardless of combination used, obviously more with a lighter diaphragm. Eventually it results in perceived slippage.

The only way to dramatically cut this down, other then very heavy diaphragms, is with a VPC.
 

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Note that I run gears in my own bike, so I do think that they are a good upgrade, I just don't expect any power gains from them.

If you had a bike with miles and stretched chains there could be a noticeable change, but it is due to the degraded chains and tensioners.
 

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One more thing that I've heard is that the tensioners change over time due to stretching which causes the performance to vary. This is not supposed to happen with the gear drive.

Please make specific note that I really have no idea what I am talking about.
 

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The reduced effort clutch is not slipping on my 06 with 95" either. If I rev to 1800 rpm's while at a light, she'll want to inch forward, but not idling.
 

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Knower of Stuff
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8-Ball,
One more thing that I've heard is that the tensioners change over time due to stretching which causes the performance to vary. This is not supposed to happen with the gear drive.
True: The timing with gears is constant, not so with chains, but I doubt it will be noticed with a mild cam. I have hand turned chain drive cams and gear drive cams, and since I can do either by hand, I have a hard time beleiving there is any HP loss using chains even though they are harder to turn.
Any HP gains will not be felt in the seat of the pants, but I have to beleive it is an advantage to run gears, that's why I do.
As far as the clutch goes, got to go with Hippo on this. If all you do is change the ramps to the easy pull, and the spring remains the same, slipping is only a matter of tme, but the ramps had no affect on that.
 

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Damn!! They were only saying 4-5 more horsies when I went to gears! Maybe they changed the design of the gears... if that's the case, I'm leaving 3 - 4 horses on the table...:yikes: %[email protected]
 

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XLIII
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prophet said:
The reduced effort clutch is not slipping on my 06 with 95" either. If I rev to 1800 rpm's while at a light, she'll want to inch forward, but not idling.
That'd be dragging you just described, not slipping...
 

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with hp increases changes with cam smaller cams less gain it will also changes with valve spring pressure as the more spring pressure agravates the cam chains timing wander on one of our early race motors gear drive with the same custom grind was good for 20 hp
 

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Just the facts ma'am
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If I'm reading this thread right, the stock clutch will slip witha 95" upgrade and cams? (26g in my case on an 02 fatboy)

Whats the solution? SC clutch spring? Is that difficult to install?

Joe
 

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IronButt
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The reduced effort set up can slip, when you upgrade the engine in regards to tq/hp your riding style is going toplay a big part in this as well as the bike.

I have been installing the Se clutch kit as it is a cost effective way to get add 28% increase 125tq to the stock unit, for those want a lighter pull you could add the easy pull unit while you are doing a build. I bought a case of the SE units at a going out of buisness sell so I am able to pass them on at prices that are hugley under dealer prices, that is until i am sold out of them. I have found that you can also use the stock spring with the new discs and have it work fine. AS the clutch facing material is better than stock units.

Again this all goes back to your riding style.
 

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XLIII
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My personal solution was SE spring and the Reduced Effort ramps that come stock in the '06 bikes.
About the same pull as stock '05 and earlier, w/ no slip or drag.
 

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0043--Licensed to Doof!
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How much did you gain with that dent in your HEAD???

:roflback: :roflback: :roflback: :roflback: :265: :roflback: :roflback: :roflback:
 
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