[deansutter]

On hot days, in traffic, oil pressure drops to 17PSI running, 6 PSI at idle. Lcoal H/D dealer says "this is typical". However, I notice a significant increase in valve train noise under these conditions, vs cooler riding times.

Its a 97 1340, FHLTCUI with stage 2 mod kit,(cam, exhaust, injectors, air kit, etc) whic I've just purchased.

Is it typcial to have a lot of valve tapping on these H/D's and are the low oil pressures typical.

 

[Sidewalk]

Basically, all internal combustion engines should run:
10-15 psi idle minimum
40-60 psi at operating RPM's
70 PSI max

 

[Kampnnut]

I asked a HD service manager about the oil pressure too. He told me Harley lowered the oil pressure to its current value because the higher pressure was causing oil leaks. The leaks went away then the pressure went down. My bike, when hot, runs about 5-6 psi at idle and 32 psi at normal speeds. He also told me the oil light comes on at 3 psi.

 

[deansutter]

Thanks Kampnut, youve confirmed that at least the 5-6 PSI is somewhat normal, and consisent with what the dealer told me.

Sidewalk, I would agree with you normally. However, the H/D service manual identifies a pressure range of 15-35 PSI (something like this, its a memory like right now) @ 2000 RPM for this engine.

I rented an 02 for a weekend and it only had 20 PSI at or above 2KRPM. SO, I guess the numbers I'm getting are normal. HUMMM....whats the cause of the lifter noise? Thinkning.....Thinking.....Clogged rod, lifter perhaps!

SOOOOOOOOOO,

Does anyone have experience actual experience with the 1340 EVO's having valve tapping problems, and repair ideas?

I see that adjustable pushrods are available through several sources. The unit has Hyd. lifters. I've never seen in a car engin with adjustable rods with Hyd. lifters. Is the factory engine configured this way?


Can the top end be disassembled in the frame and do I have to take off the tank?.....OUCH!

Advise would be helpful!

 

[Sidewalk]

However, the H/D service manual identifies a pressure range of 15-35 PSI (something like this, its a memory like right now) @ 2000 RPM for this engine.

I need to check my manual too now. I don't like that. Everything I have ever worked on has the same specs I listed above. That goes for my VW, all the way up to the generator I used to work on, that had a 9.5" bore x 10.5" stroke V8. It was about the same size as a Full size Bronco...

Sounds like a half ass fix for HD to me.

 

[HIPPO]

Does anyone have experience actual experience with the 1340 EVO's having valve tapping problems, and repair ideas?

The oiling system on an EVO is completely different from a TC, so you are comparing apples and oranges. When evo's get hot they have almost no oil pressure at idle.

The easiest thing to try is to clean the oil screen to the lifter gallery, it's easily accessible.

Lifters get tired, if they have more then 30K on them they could be candidates for replacement. When these things get real hot they grow as much as .060" so it could be going over the abilty of the lifters to compensate if there is some valvetrain component wear. If you decide to take it apart make sure to shim the rocker shafts to spec.

It wouldn't be the first time someone mixed up the pushrods, as they are either of two or three different lenghts. There are two reasons for using adjustable pushrods with hydraulic lifters. To be able to remove the cam without tearing the top off and to compensate for modifications.

You can take the engine apart all the way to the cases in the bike (if the engine is stock dimensionally), but you have to remove the fuel tank, no big deal.

You can also replace lifters or cams by cutting the original pushrods with a bolt cutter, without touching the top end. Then you use the adjustables (make sure they are quick install in this case) and there is a small chance, if everything is Ok that the adjustable pushrods may be enough to get the noise out, but this is ghetto engineering.

If it was me I'll either fix it right or ride it with the noise.

 

[Sidewalk]

I need to check my manual too now. I don't like that.

Sounds like a half ass fix for HD to me.

I looked mine up,
10-17 psi at 2500 RPM
7-12 psi at idle

Damn that is funky.

 

[deansutter]

If it was me I'll either fix it right or ride it with the noise.

Thanks Hipppo, et all.

It sounds like you and I think alike.....do it right or not at all. I hate pulling up to a light and sounding like an old beater car. So, I guess I knwo where I headed.

The bike only has 6K Miles. So I wouldn't think lifter fatigue is the problem. Unless, the bike sat for a long time with it compressed. I cleaned the screen prior to the oil change. (It was not dirty to start with either)

The bike had a Stage II upgrade, you may have hit on the problem. Perhaps someone swapped rods, or miss shimmed the rockers. I didn;t realize the rods where different lengths until you pointed it out.

So, I guess the only way to find out is to rip it apart. Once into it, I might as well put new lifters in, and measure rods, and shim heights.

I'm an past auto mechanic, and have several grand in tools. Do I need any "special tools" to accomplish the above (this assumes I'm NOT using adjustable rods and the CUT and Slip in method.)

Thanks, Dean

 

[HIPPO]

Nope, real basic.

May have to cut an Allen wrench to fit here and there, that's all.

 

[deansutter]

OK then, away we go!

 

[tallharleyrider]

I have a 2002 FLHTCI and down here is Texas it gets pretty hot. With no oil cooler, and on a hot day, my oil pressure is around 4 or 5 psi at idle, and at 3000 rpm it is like 25 psi. This is lower than the service manual, but the service manual does say under normal operating temperatures. I think that our bikes are running hotter than normal, and thus the oil gets thinner and lowers the oil pressure. The service manual suggests using HD 50 weight when the ambient temperature will be above 60 degees. That is not a problem here is Texas, so I think I may try that on my next oil change. BTW, I asked the dealer about the low oil pressure and he said not to worry about it until the light comes on.

Ron

 

[HIPPO]

EVO's and TC's have completely different oiling systems, but the TC readings are in the ballpark too.


The one other thing now that you mention the cam change on the EVO is to check the backlash on the cam gear real careful and it is something you are not likely to do at home unless you buy the measuring pins.
If someone got lazy and did not press the original cam gear on the new cam and used the one that came with it this is a likely cause. These noises transmit in strange ways.

 

[deansutter]

May have to cut an Allen wrench to fit here and there, that's all Nope, real basic.

Hippo,

OK, so I've taken the top end apart leaving the heads on. After I got it apart, and the push rods and covers out, etc. I found that someone in doing the stage II upgrade installed adjustable push rods. Lifters, rocker arms etc all seem OK, but I know. ideally one should change it all once they run for a while.

So, I'm thinking my options are:
1) To do it right....New Factory Lifters, Push Rods, and Rockers......or
2) Try to reassembly and properly adjust the adjustable pushrods. This is certainly the cheaper path.

I also noticed, in the manual, they show o rings on the top of the push rods sealing them to the rockers.

Questions:
1) Any idea of is the technique/procedure for adjusting the push rods?
2) Are the O rings needed or even in most motors? (I suspect when the cam was installed they used your technique of cutting the rods and installing the adjustables without taking the top end apart. Therefore, you can't install the O rings.
3) Its a very low mileage engine (6K), have you any exerience with the results of just putting in factory rods and leaving rockers, lifters, etc.
4) The manua shows an aligment tool for aligning the lifter covers.....It seems somewhat unnecessary. Every use one?

Dean

 

[danlg]

have o1 e-glide...oil pressure drops to 5-6 at stop...runs at 31-32 down the road

 

[HIPPO]

No need to replace rockers/shafts and pushrods. Check the clearances bretween the rockers and shafts as well as the spacing (end play).

Lifters should be OK with 6K, but you never know. I would try and put it back together.
Measuring the cam gear is pretty inconvenient at home, but it might well be the cause of the noise if the gear that came with the cam was used instead of the factory gear transfered.

There is no O ring on top of the pushrods, there are three on the pushrod tubes, someone got confused. Change them.

The tools for the lifter blocks are only two conical shoulder bolts and cheap, but on the EVO they should be used as the alignment of the blocks determines how the lifters ride on the cam.

Wether you can use stock pushrods depends on many things. If the cam has the same base circle and all the gaskets, ie base and head gaskets, are the same OEM thickness and the head has not been shaved I guess you could, but they are coded and of different lenghts and you really save no labor.
There are two types of adjustable push rods for EVO's the ones called adkustables, and the ones called timesavers. Only the timesavers can typically be fit without removing the rocker boxes, this would change how you put the bloody thing back together. See if they fit between the lifter blocks and head when fully shortened.
Even the adjustables are often of two different lenghts, the long ones go on the exhausts.


To adjust throw the thing together with the rods fully shortened. Lift the rear wheel and with the bike in 5th gear turn the wheel in the direction of travel until both lifters for one cylinder go up and down in rapid siccession and continue to turn the wheel until the piston is at TDC on the comperession stroke, check with a screwdriver thru the plughole.
Now extend both push rods for that cylinder until there is no play and you can just turn them with your fingers. Now turn the adjuster so as to extend them exactly .100" the number of turns or flats depends on the brand of pushrods as they all have different pitch.
Now wait until the lifters bleed down, might take as much as half hour on the exhausts in particular. You have to be able again to turn the pushrods with your fingers.

Now do the same for the other cylinder.

Piece of cake. It really is a lot easier then it sounds.

 

[HIPPO]

Do NOT turn the engine before the lifters bleed down, and wait for them to bleed down on the second cylinder also.


If you need more info there are good instructions in pdf file form both on the Andrews and Crane websites, including measurement methods for the cam and pinion gears. The pins are cheap, but most people do not have the micrometers. Might be able to get an idea with a digital caliper.

 

[deansutter]

Hippo,

Haven't been on in quite a while. Wanted to say Thanks for the input. Used your advice, did the work myself, and went on a little ride to check it out. I road from Atlanta to Memphis to Little Rock to Branson to Bowling Green to Nashville to Lynchburg to Atlanta, 2K miles in all. Everything ran GREAT, 5-6 PSI @ idle, no noise, 16-20PSI while running. I have only on question, every time I adjust the valves will I have to make the same trip? Only kidding......Thanks again.

Dean

 

[HIPPO]

I just wish I could do an equivalent trip every time I adjust valves, but I suspect people would bit(h when they got the bill.