[Jake707SBFMC]

ok so ive been trying to figure out this oil leak im having and it appears to be leaking where the heads bolt to the barrels. i look in between those fins and see oil residew there. Ill list the engine specs below. im almost positive i torqued the heads down to specs before i put the motor in, could they have come loose? if so can i just retighten or do they need to come off and replace the gasket? If i need to replace the gasket which kind and squish should i use? is this a common issue? thanks all

Engine specs
1999 crank and engine base
95" Wiseco 10.5 compression pistons (domed)
2006 stock 88 heads
211 cams

 

[01fxdx]

did you assemble? next, if you used cometic gaskets, did you use an oring on the dowel for oil return? that's a no no.

 

[Jake707SBFMC]

I did assemble them. I don't know the brand of gasket I used. The wiseco piston kit came with a gasket set and those are the ones I used.bi did it about 6 months ago so I don't really remember the little details like if I used the oring or not. I might have done to much drugs in the past cuz my memory sucks.

 

[jasilva]

Were the gaskets 3 thin coated layers of steel with riveted ears holding them together or fiber type with a silver coating? First type are Cometic MLS and they require a different torque procedure from stock. Usually though the leak your describing is due to using an o ring on the dowel when you shouldn't(Cometic MLS) or not using one when you should(most fiber type gaskets).

 

[Dyna Ryda]

Were the gaskets 3 thin coated layers of steel with riveted ears holding them together or fiber type with a silver coating? First type are Cometic MLS and they require a different torque procedure from stock. Usually though the leak your describing is due to using an o ring on the dowel when you shouldn't(Cometic MLS) or not using one when you should(most fiber type gaskets).

@gree:been there done that. You can pick up a set of cometic .030 HG for about 30-40 and change them. Follow the instruction card that comes with them, 43 ft lbs in proper sequence, should fix the problem.

 

[2wheelrider]

Defiantly a potentially serous problem. Next will come a blown head gasket. You could say its blown already but... the only way to really know is to pull the head. If your riding down the road and gases start escaping from the blown gasket you could end up having to resurface the heads and cylinders so its best to fix it wile its just a little oil pushing out. Same thing happend to my 117 two months ago.

 

[ruffnek98]

Just got done putting a new set of heads on mine and had a simmilar problem as well. Wound up nicking a top pushrod seal on the front intake. Looked like my motor took an oil bath. Would definately check out the head gasket like has been suggested. Is the leak on both heads or just one?

 

[Jake707SBFMC]

Were the gaskets 3 thin coated layers of steel with riveted ears holding them together or fiber type with a silver coating? First type are Cometic MLS and they require a different torque procedure from stock. Usually though the leak your describing is due to using an o ring on the dowel when you shouldn't(Cometic MLS) or not using one when you should(most fiber type gaskets).

ok they are def cometic, they are metal not fiber. What are the differences in torque specs between the two gaskets? if i did use the o ring around the dowel would that cause a leak right away or would it take time? i ask because ive put about 3K miles on the motor and the leak seems to just have started in the past 500 miles.

 

[Jake707SBFMC]

@gree:been there done that. You can pick up a set of cometic .030 HG for about 30-40 and change them. Follow the instruction card that comes with them, 43 ft lbs in proper sequence, should fix the problem.

should i buy the .030 or the .045 thick gaskets? i know i want the most compression possible with the 211 cams, but since they are domed pistons would .030 put the pistons to close to the heads? probably a dumb question but thought id ask.

 

[Jake707SBFMC]

Just got done putting a new set of heads on mine and had a simmilar problem as well. Wound up nicking a top pushrod seal on the front intake. Looked like my motor took an oil bath. Would definately check out the head gasket like has been suggested. Is the leak on both heads or just one?

i know the leak is on the front cylinder i dont think the rear cylinder is leaking. there is oil on it but it looks like its oil blown from the front cyclinder, but if i change one ill change them both.

 

[jasilva]

Yep ,I'd change them both. If you put the o ring in or didn't follow the torque procedure it'll leak and most likely not right away. The gaskets should come with instructions but the torque values are, Initial torque 9 ft/lbs, then 14, then 22, 35, final torque 42 ft/lbs.

 

[ruffnek98]

should i buy the .030 or the .045 thick gaskets? i know i want the most compression possible with the 211 cams, but since they are domed pistons would .030 put the pistons to close to the heads? probably a dumb question but thought id ask.

Depends on what the clay says. If ever in dout, clay the pistons. Check your valve clearance and be damn sure. If you used a cometic gasket, not saying do it, but I have reused them twice with no issues. Its your bike and your choice. Best bet is pull the front head and check and see what gasket you'v got. If the o-rings are still in place, and is a cometic gasket pull the o-rings, but before you go back together I would highly recomend replacing the gasket. 35 bucks for a set? Peice of mind??? Your bike, your choice. Looks like you've got a solid build there. Enjoy it and have fun.

 

[Dyna Ryda]

Depends on what the clay says. If ever in dout, clay the pistons. Check your valve clearance and be damn sure. If you used a cometic gasket, not saying do it, but I have reused them twice with no issues. Its your bike and your choice. Best bet is pull the front head and check and see what gasket you'v got. If the o-rings are still in place, and is a cometic gasket pull the o-rings, but before you go back together I would highly recomend replacing the gasket. 35 bucks for a set? Peice of mind??? Your bike, your choice. Looks like you've got a solid build there. Enjoy it and have fun.

I have reused them also without any problems. Not sure what your pistons look like, but I would try to go with .030 hg for a tighter squish band.

 

[Jake707SBFMC]

So it sounds like the best bet is to pull the heads, replace the gaskets for new ones and do the clay test to make sure I have proper clearance. I will also check the pushrods to make sure they are straight, change the o rings on the pushrods and they gaskets d
For the rapper covers just in case. Id rather spend the extra time now when the rain is here then have to do it over again during riding season.

Can someone explain the actual clay test process? I know it has something to do with putting a piece of modeling clay on the cylinder and rotating the motor. Do I put just a little piece in the center of the piston or cover the whole raised section of the domed piston? Do I torque the heads down with pushrods and all installed with the clay in the piston, rotate the assembly a few times then tear it all back down again?

 

[ruffnek98]

Gonna try and link this. Hope it works. http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/twin-cam-engine-mods/96464-claying-valve-piston-clearance.html
This is a good explanation of how its done. Just make sure the top of the pistons are clean when u start. A razor blade works as best as I have found. Completley assemble the motor as you are measuring the way it will be when riding. I do mine with out the gasket and then add that measurment to what I get when I measure the clay. But you can do it either way. Here is one more link which also a good show of how to check your clearances.
http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_valvetopiston.shtml

Good luck. Anymore questions just ask.

 

[Jake707SBFMC]

Right on I appreciate the help fellas. One more question before I dig into this tonight. Once I have a measurement what do I do with it haha. What should the clay thickness be? Or more importantly what thickness shouldn't the clay be? Since I have been running the motor already I'm pretty sure the piston was clearing the valves but that might be barely.

 

[Bruce Woltz]

Some of the Wiseco kits had James silicone beaded gaskets. Those gaskets will split and ooze out in 4k to 20k depending the on the cylinder pressure and heat cycles.. They need replacing.

 

[Jake707SBFMC]

They are def the metal gaskets. I can see the rivet sticking out between the find on the motor.

Hopefully I will be able to get the heads off tonight. I'm letting the garage air out a little bit since my technique for getting the gas out of the tank was a little flawed. Now I have about 2 gallons of gas on my garage floor. Good thing I filled up the tank last time I rode. Dammit

 

[Jake707SBFMC]

For the heads off. There was def some oil coming out between the head and barrel. Not sure why I didn't use the o ring on the dowel with the cosmetic gaskets. I'm also concerned how much burnt blackness is on top of the pistons. There's only 2500 miles on the motor.

 

[2wheelrider]

You don't want to use O-rings if you going to use cometic gaskets. Just clean up the head and cylinders real good...clean,clean,clean...then put a new set of gaskets on. Oil is bad so make sure there clean...did I say that already. No deep scratches in head surface or cylinders and your good to go.